Wow, looks like its all going well until…
Don’t worry, no actual mayhem, but man, could have.
Comments from the professionals among us would be appreciated.
Trip Report
Wow, looks like its all going well until…
Don’t worry, no actual mayhem, but man, could have.
Comments from the professionals among us would be appreciated.
Bootboy
Sorry, I didn’t mean to contend. I was just geeking out and indulging myself a little in the subject. I think that fundamentally, we agree on all the above points.
Red Cloud
Regular long term practice, industry standards and variables depending on the arborist’s situation. I am NOT a commercial operator, and as such I defer to your procedures and style. I do though have friends that have been arborists for decades & myself I have dealt with many deciduous and conifer. Often arborists are dealing with deciduous trees in precarious corners. Cutting them is most often a different game than conifer. I said in my comment that arborists rarely pack more than small saws up into the tree. I was thinking of high and/or broad trimming of limbs or topping trees. There are exceptions, I know. That doesn’t mean that you, others, can’t take any machine/bar you like, as high as you wish. 80cc with a 30/inch bar; likely 20 -more or less- pounds in the sky? Function of weight, operation and necessity of cut; and of course, at times some cuts are made with the cutter below and not above the cut line (while tied into another branch or line). A picture and video offer the viewer a pretty good look, but not a full panorama of what is going on with fences, lines, lot size and potential fall lines. I guessed (I could be wrong) that looking at the video, cuts of other limbs could have been made before the gentleman wound up and plowed the saw into the trunk. A subjective call I believe. Others could disagree; I would have cut large limbs and left the trunk and then dealt with that cut while standing on the ground (and not in a ladder); and of course so many other circumstances exist in other tree situations; your photos are a reminder. You can be the mentor/guide as to arborist activity, your photos/narrative is testament to that. But I’ve seen folk with chainsaws, knocked off ladders, knocked out of trees (not trained professionals) and I’ve seen rookie canyoneers (even experienced folk, when fatigued or upset) make bonehead mistakes. Hopefully when eyes see the video minds think about safety, training and of mortality. And if others want more nuance or perspective as to saws and cutting they could of course go to arborist or trade sites. Last year I needed a cut 50 ft. up (in my backyard Ash tree where a big limb had broken off) I called a Polynesian friend who climbed; we used my ropes/pulleys/slings and even one of my saws. But I’m on the ground at this stage in the “game” and my perspective from that vantage is not always so precise. But still, thoughts of safety (and sometimes property damage) echo louder than the roar of any saw.
Red Cloud
Lessons for canyoneering? Skill, technique, planning, experience, paying dues. I’ve had chainsaws for decades. Front cuts and back cuts are one thing. Power saws on a ladder, with much of the tree above is another. A skillful outfit would have topped down the tree, cut off all limbs, left the large trunk and then had the cutter stand on the ground. Once the trunk fell,( in this circumstance), there would be less weight and easier quick access for the cutter to escape. Experienced cutters rarely ever flinch, they can most often get a manageable trunk to tumble in whatever direction they like. In a confined area though with fences, power lines and small yard, guide lines for the fall are prudent. The cutter arguably came within inches of getting wiped out. And the weight of the trunk could have dislodged the saw from his hands, and with blade still spinning it could have hit his head, chest or legs. Unless arborists are in power buckets, I rarely see them handling anything other than a lite 30cc saw in the upper parts of a tree; and there they are always clipped in “above” the cut, which falls below them. Ladders and chainsaws – haven’t used the two in tandem for decades.
Bootboy
Being a deciduous tree it had more of a spreading crown. Simply trimming it down to a trunk doesn’t always work. For whatever reason they thought smaller pieces needed to come off. He just didn’t go small enough.
The placement of his cut would have worked, but he gambled on a sloppy cut, and we saw the consequences of his poor execution. it was a workable scenario. But several errors were made by at least two parties. The puller needed to slow down, and apply steady tension to the line. The climber also needed to take his time and be more aware of his cut, place his hinge right and not cut through it so it could do it’s job, guide the tree.
While I certainly do most of my climbing with a small top handle saw, i’ve been 50 feet off the deck with a 80cc saw with a 30 inch bar buried.
Allow me to indulge
Me? I would not have gambled on that cut and would have taken smaller pieces.
I just finished deadwooding a 60 foot Elm tree over a house today and thought about that video.
I realized that a habit I have when working in trees, that also translates over to my canyoneering, is to check, recheck, and check again, that everything is in place before I start my saw. (Weight my device, or let anyone else go on rope)
I take a second to lean back and analyze the whole set up. I make sure all my ropes are in the right place, that I’m tied into the tree at least twice, and make sure I know where I need to be in order to make the cut safely and comfortably. I will often reposition myself to or three times before I’m comfortable making the cut. I also ask my ground man to take a look. I get nervous every time I get ready to make a cut and I think it’s probably kept me out of trouble. I’m certainly not the fastest guy in the business but I’ve managed not to hurt myself. These things all have their corollaries in the canyon environment.
Deagol
I’ve never seen a tree deliver a right hook like that…
Bootboy
Watching it closely again, I see it also hit the telephone pole. You need to work AROUND obstacles by taking smaller pieces.
Bootboy
That could have gone so much worse. He’s lucky it didn’t kill him.
I’ve topped and blocked down a lot of trees. His back cut was too low. You need to come in about 2 inches higher than the bottom of your face cut and NOT cut through your hinge. A higher back cut means the even if you cut through your hinge, the tree won’t jump backwards off the stump. I also think his face cut needed to be more open. The moron pulling on the rope needed steady pressure, not the jerky motion seen.
Someone get this guy the TCIA rigging manual for Christmas.
Mountaineer
Wow.
I don’t pretend to be a professional, but have cut a lot of trees with a chainsaw while living in Montana.
He needed to leave more material closest to the rope pull side. Was it a clean cut? That way, when it falls the cut section will stay in place. You can always cut more after which would allow the bottom slide down and away.