Speaking solely for myself…
Yes, that is what I inexorably think and say to myself when I read the reports. Not because I see myself as superior, but rather I see the canyons as a resource; a resource that, if enough people die, can be taken away. And that is not me being dramatic… it is the reason the pesky permit system was enacted, and why a certain trail in the park was closed and washed off the maps.
Am I selfish for thinking that way? Probably. But that’s the main reason for my eye-rolling and disdain for clumsy canyonistas.
Canyonero
I like the technique, except for the obvious issue that if the belayer fails, you now have two injured people.
Yellow Dart
Also the rope coils quite a bit if using an 8-based device like a Sqwuwuwuwurrel, and if it’s in your device it won’t unwind…
ratagonia
The belayer should never* be directly underneath the rappeller.
Tom
*almost never
Rapterman
Thanks for bumping this post, Skyloaf.
Adding some icing to the cake of potential death and loss in the canyons you can now expect to be sued
for everything you will ever own should you survive while a companion does not
gajslk
And even if you win the lawsuit, you’ll be broke, having spent all of your money on lawyers …
Skyloaf
It’s okay I spent all my money on gear.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
townsend
We have devoted threads to safe techniques. And still people get hurt. Part of it is the learning curve — rope sports have a steep learning curve — one can get in over one’s head real quick. Mistakes and accidents don’t just “bruise egos” — instead, one gets broken vertebra, ribs, fractures (arms, legs, pelvises, etc.), amputation of limbs, concussions, and even death. And rope burns are very unpleasant.
One critical important preventive step mentioned by Brian is “testing the rappel” before launch. How many times have we heard of individuals — esp. inexperienced ones — rappelling on the wrong side of the biner or rope knot block?
It’s really sad. I really hate to hear of young people getting hurt, crippled, or dying. They had a whole life ahead of them, and I don’t like them getting short-changed. And of course the older crowd don’t really want to check out either . . . we tend to hang on as long as we can.
IN Gonzales’ book, Deep Survival, he writes philosophically about survival. This isn’t a “how to” build a fire, stay warm, catch fish with your bare hands type of book. It is fascinating reading.
In one of his articles (I can’t remember its title), he talks about a famous accident where an elite skier, who knows better, goes out and checks the terrain for avalanches. Gonzales emphasizes how that everytime we don’t have an accident, our brains register that behavior as “safe”. Humans tend to experiment a little, and explore the limits — that gray poorly demarcated zone between safe and danger.
At any rate, in the article that skier felt confident that the avalanche risk was minimal, and guess what: he died that day. He ignored the clear signs of avalanche danger. Makes you wonder.
Skyloaf
“REALITY check.
On rope sports including canyoneering can be DEADLY.
The majority of people on this forum share knowledge and experience to help others enjoy the canyons and stay ALIVE.
Hurt feelings are not the same as compressed spinal disks, busted ribs, skull fractures, and epic rescues.
Please come with a thick skin and an open mind.
Scorn tends to be heaped on the arrogant/ ignorant as they can be a threat to themselves, to others,
and to the sport.”
Absolutely! I feel that most people understand innately unless they’re entirely devoid of any fear. Where I think the important focus should be is certainly on learning, questioning why something works or doesn’t work, and willingness to outgrow old information you’ve been running on for years. I know that if I moved myself within close proximity to a canyon in Utah and just sat there watching netflix for two years it won’t help me know how to handle a 300′ rappel. Active learning, and opening myself to a community with a wealth of information has been great, along with these types of discussions where people can actually work out and debate best practices. And as much as people give Tom grief for being so vocal and opinionated, I absolutely love it because he tears past this idea that we have to gently coddle bad ideas into good ones rather than give a straight argument and debate it with some solid information.
Brian in SLC
Different strokes, but, that’s probably the last thing I think about.
I try to have fairly simple safety protocols. Use of a certain device with a certain rope type and diameter. Wet or dry. Then, double check, triple check the system. Consider back ups. Go on rappel prior to actual launch to test I’m hooked in correctly. Etc.
I certainly don’t want to be personally involved in an accident…for a number of reasons, the absolute last one would be stinging commentary from the community soap box. Absolutely my last concern.
YMMV, obviously. And…that’s ok. Whatever gives you motivation for being safe.
Skyloaf
Well yeah, obviously! That’s where all the rest of it comes in – which is training, preparation, practice, and all the things required to get through anything safely – then putting everything into practice, because, I assume, everyone has a healthy sense of self-preservation and care about the people around them. It would be hard to find anyone who wants to be involved in an accident, but maybe I’m just making wild assumptions. You guys need to learn how to take a joke lol
Brian in SLC
We need that “lol”…ha!
Interesting to ponder, a hind site perspective versus self-preservation versus the newby-esque enthusiasm and willingness to get out there.
It does seem, given some of the accident reporting, that some folks are just begging to have one. And, sooner or later it seems, the more we put ourselves out there in the arena, the more chances that a mistake will be made.
I’ve never shied away from parsing accidents, especially when I can talk with someone directly involved. Adds to my own knowledge and helps me and mine keep safe.
Let’s all stay safe out there!
Skyloaf
Yes! And that’s totally fair! I spend a lot of time reading accident reports, and while I know I have a lot of newbie enthusiasm, I also don’t want to die, or get injured and I don’t want to drag anyone down with me or become someones ‘situation’. I have a lot of respect for people who are willing to post their accident reports. It takes a lot of character, self-reflection, and humility to bare your mistakes so that others can learn from them.
Skyloaf
Also I’ve finally discovered the ‘Reply’ button.
Rapterman
REALITY check.
On rope sports including canyoneering can be DEADLY.
The majority of people on this forum share knowledge and experience to help others enjoy the canyons and stay ALIVE.
Hurt feelings are not the same as compressed spinal disks, busted ribs, skull fractures, and epic rescues.
Please come with a thick skin and an open mind.
Scorn tends to be heaped on the arrogant/ ignorant as they can be a threat to themselves, to others,
and to the sport.