All but one body now found. Sounds like they have expanded the search to areas outside the park along the Virgin River. I hope for the families involved the SAR teams are able to find the body and provide whatever amount of closure is possible.
Phillip
spinesnaper
Heartbreaking. I don’t think there are many other words for it. Humbling also comes to mind. The beautiful, narrow, carved and fluted red walls that draw us into the other, in-between world of canyons also makes them potentially lethal. It can be an acute mistake with gravity, the accumulative effect of hypothermia, or an unexpected wall of water and debris. There can’t be any doubt that canyoneers assume the risks of their activity and we are not particularly a group that believes in the nanny state. However, it is also a community that truly is concerned about the safety of other canyon travelers. I suspect that the canyoneers who really need to absorb the lessons may only be lurkers here or perhaps those who venture through these canyons without knowledge of the available community resources. It is one thing to read about a very experienced group caught out in an unexpected flash flood and managing the situation. It is another thing to contemplate a relatively inexperienced group getting caught in a flash flood. I have not read anything about the canyoneering experience level of the group involved in this tragedy. Tom Jones has assayed the greatest common denominator in many canyoneering tragedies: beginners leading other beginners. I do not know if this error contributed to this event. This is the time of the Jewish High Holy Days when it is said that God records in the Book of Life who shall live and who shall die. As a community, we will absorb the lessons of this terrible loss. As a community we will embrace those who are new to canyoneering and open themselves to learn what makes a canyoneer safe. How many of us had their first introduction to technical canyoneering doing Keyhole and Pine Creek? It is a painful lesson that every canyoneer needs to accept: Even in the simplest technical canyon, the dangers are every bit real.
Ken
AW~
If one pursues a strategy of hate all too common on this site, then they will go after Don T initially….yes. I still think the 19 year old who is now defacto ‘head of household’ of young kids of the Gavela family, would still say “I wishes the park service had done more like putting up a closed sign at the trailhead. My (single)dad wouldnt have done the canyon, despite Don T”. That and he wants his dads body returned for a funeral(there is a gofundme). He might remember later someone telling him his dad was really dumb though, if they went that route of hate.
Ok, I’ll admit if one tells Don T “I wouldnt go today”, or told him about flash floods, they might be told in his words to “f*** off”. And so nothing would be told to the other people anything about adverse conditions….OK… This is not the first go-round. When rescues are “entertaining” and hospital visits “adventure”, in response to a trip participant breaking the code of silence/whitewashing/coverup………theres a reason the meetup is private.
He still is doing it as safe as he can though – hes not on a suicide mission or some kind of daredevil. No matter the ‘OMG, I had no idea this guy was so reckless, and of bad character….you made this guy out to be a lunatic’…its irrelevant. That leadership model is once again showed as flawed anyway. But bottom line: canyoneering cant be made foolproof….keep on insisting experience makes it safe if you want. Id still tell that 19 year old that his dad did care about him and the haters are just that.
Mike Zampino
You lost me. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I haven’t seen any “hate” posts. I don’t see anyone doing the blame game. Accidents can happen. Especially in a wilderness setting. Experience can reduce the risk of accidents. Training can reduce the risk of accidents. To think the park service can place signs at trailheads when there is a flashflood warning is somewhat ridiculous. First because there are too many canyons and most are in out of the way hard to reach places and second because most the canyons do not originate at signed trailheads.
hank moon
Lost me, too. If possible, would you consider re-working a bit for clarity? I would like to better understand the various points therein. In particular, it’s unclear what your personal opinion is vs. what you imagine the opinion of others might be (in the case of trailhead signage, for example).
AW~
Looks to be confirmation that all 7 belonged to a meetup group Valencia Hiking Club….led by “leader” “Don T”, now deceased.
Phillip
To be clear, I only aired that concern as the reporter in the interview asked a specific question about liability concerns for the NPS. My guess is they are more concerned and already taking that option seriously behind the scenes. If they dotted their i’s and crossed their t’s then they might not have much worry.
The optics to the general public are obviously poor from conversations like the linked audio highlights; a permit was awarded but hours later “canyons were closed” according to the representatives statements. It always difficult to watch as the lay public analyzes these accidents without the knowledge that comes with experience. If you haven’t utilized the permit system in Zion it would all sound pretty bad from the outside. But from our experience we know you can pick up a permit 1-2 days before you descend a canyon (something the community has lobbied to extend) and weather can change radically in that time, nonetheless hours. And as we all know we don’t always have access to up-to-the-minute weather information when we are in the field nor do we know the agency has “closed” a canyon.
I am probably not the only one who had family and friends write and call to make sure I was alright. The way the media presented the storm it appears to so many that all of “southern Utah” was inundated with huge flash floods. Events like this really expose how local context and situations stretch the knowledge and faculty of the national and global community. Not sure there is a solution to that issue but it is definitely a major flaw in how we communicate in the modern era.
Phillip
hank moon
Zion National Park explains backcountry permit rules following flash flood deaths.
https://audioboom.com/boos/3582900-…try-permit-rules-following-flash-flood-deaths
Phillip
Keeping my fingers crossed this does not become a legal issue for the NPS. I hope they followed their procedures properly in this particular case but I suppose that will come out as time goes along.
I have been debating getting a weather radio for travel; maybe its time. Wish all cars had them like the old Subbies did.
Phillip
Alias_Rice
Probably not the right time or thread for it, but the idea that this or any other accident in the park is somehow the NPS fault is crazy. If you make decisions to recreate in the wilderness bad things can happen, especially if you make poor decisions.
AW~
The NPS deemed to be at fault after Kolob….so its now crazy to assume the NPS isnt at fault. Both Zion(and the Angeles Forest here BTW) have rejected the claim the former status of wild lands and accepted responsibility. The legal defense of ‘the wilds’ is long gone.
Maybe they followed procedures or not…so what? Its the same dog and pony show reaction to Kolob. The legal liability now states “X” though. If the procedures were followed, then they have to change the procedures to meet “X”…still liable. They claim to have closed the canyon…and alerted via media and contact points. Is that a defense? I think the jury would wonder why not just close the trailhead. I can already hear a cry about resources….but remember they chose to accept the liability. Were there enough resources to check permits at parking lots that day? Oh….its not surprising that a national park like Zion has enough resources to toss up a closed sign.
Mike Zampino
First Check Box:
I have adequately planned and prepared for this trip. I have taken action to ensure that my group is self-reliant and aware of the risks involved with canyoneering and this canyoneering trip. I understand that rescue is not a certainty. My safety and the safety of my group is my responsibility.
3rd check box:
I will be aware of the weather and the flash flood potential rating and assume the risks involved with entering a canyon. Storms from miles away can produce flash floods that can be life threatening. If bad weather threatens, my group will not enter a narrow canyon. I will continuously evaluate the weather and adjust my plans to keep myself and my group safe.
4th check box:
When the National Weather Service issues a Flash Flood Warning for any portion of Zion National Park, all canyons within the park are considered closed. The canyons remain closed until two hours after the Flash Flood warning is lifted.
Links to the Zion Canyon weather forecast, the headwaters forecast, flash flood potential, and current river flow are available from the permit homepage: http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/weather-and-climate.htm
2065toyota
Really
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Morgan
A good perspective on the intensity of the precipitation:
http://wasatchweatherweenies.blogspot.com/
Phillip
I think that is such an important lesson to take away from the Hillsdale incident in particular. (Its hard to know how to conclude anything from precipitation amount at Keyhole with this data set and analysis though.) It will be telling what the survivors account holds for the Hillsdale flood in relationship to any decision making, etc. There is obviously no immediate benefit to anyone involved but it might help us understand more of the “human dynamics” trends at the broader level in the long run.
Its likely any of these decision making issues will not be available to the family or community at large with the Keyhole accident due to the complete loss of life in the team. Unless they made phone calls and discussed their decision making with loved ones or people who didn’t descent the canyon it will largely be speculation which provides very little merit to lessons learned for others. Which is fine as knowing 7 people died might just need to be enough anyways.
The magnitude of life lost from this one storm series will be tangible for many communities for years to come. Wishing everyone the best especially in the autumn canyoneering season.
Phillip
VillainousTurtle
Final body found today, 11:35 am
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Kuenn
Very, very sad and heart wrenching. Read the press release from the Ventura County Sheriff’s office; parents of three, with 7 grandchildren…. Sobering enough, but then to think there is a story (stories) with family and friends grieving, behind each of these fatalities.
Sadly as it stands, the facts and final moments of this tragedy will most likely never be known. I’m at loss….
yetigonecrazy1
55 cfs to 2,630 cfs in 15 minutes! That is a LOT of rain in a short time.
So sad to hear. Unfortunately with a canyon like Keyhole, with the media exposure and general “social downrating”, I feel like the potential for a possible bad situation had been increasing for a long time. It’s really sad and a total bummer…… Is it wrong to think that there was a higher than normal chance that something like this was eventually going to happen? Or at least, the probability of it happening was much higher here, than say, Trail Canyon? I am not trying to be morbid at all. Just trying to think about how when you have that many people going to a certain canyon, and like others have brought up, especially for visitors from far away who don’t want to not complete the canyon, it’s going to lead to more people entering when conditions aren’t so great. I’m surprised there hasn’t been some kind of incident in Little Wild Horse yet for that same reason.
Of course, condolences to all parties involved. It’s so tragic when lives are lost doing something that normally brings so much joy.
AW~
The missing person is named as Linda Arthur:wife of Steve Arthur, deceased. Both are from southern california…Ventura County, California.
http://www.vcstar.com/news/local-news/sheriffs-sergeant-killed-in-utah-flash-flood_27634923
SCard
From other reports it doesn’t sound like they have been through Pine Creek, yet, due to potential storms.