Tirrus said:
While we are talking about increasing risk and advanced technique. Not attempting to derail the conversation, but let’s combine a few scenarios…
…Anyone played with the concept of using a fiddlestick to prevent rope grooving simul rapping an arch via a hitch bend?
Something like this maybe.
Thoughts? Click to expand…
Sonny Lawrence
One example of when it is useful to NOT pay attention part of the time is with a technical lower in SAR. My team uses a micro rack. If I am the operator, I have three options. I can hold onto the rope continuously. I can do a soft tie off. I can do a hard tie off. At times some issue may occur wherein I need to move away from that station. It is risky to leave with the device just soft tied. So instead I do a hard tie off. That way I can “NOT pay attention” while I am addressing the other issue.
Another example is when I am hanging on a rope somewhere doing something like attach a rope to a retrieval line or cleaning a mid-station anchor or taking video. Depending on the particulars, I may want to hard tie off my rappel device so I do NOT have to pay attention to it.
So as usual, it is difficult to make hard fast rules. I prefer general principles.
hank moon
Have used successfully on a few short (~50′) raps with clean(ish), dry rope. Nothing unusual to report, did not measure the pull-force. More testing in the works with longer raps and force measurement.
Deagol
I was really trying to use the Moses icons, as they seem to be very popular lately..
But I also don’t think it’s a mundane route as you suggest. The upper portion is pretty good (but short) considering it’s length.
YMMV
Canyonero
Yup, it’s one of the best 200 yard canyons out there. Too bad you have to walk 4 miles to do that 200 yards.
Deagol
Yeah, but there is a way to do it as an out & back if you can up-climb a drainage on the left side (LUC) of the natural bridge/arch area. it’s actually more of a lolly-pop than an out & back, though.
Deagol
off topic a bit maybe, but I don’t like the idea of simul-rapping off Morning Glory arch due to the fact that it does create rope groves and it feels like a “stunt rappel” since there is a perfectly good anchor on the normal cliff just next to the arch LDC of left, off a tree/bush (at least there was when I was there).
Canyonero
I agree, it feels like a “stunt rappel” and the other anchor is perfectly good. In my 5 trips down the canyon, I’ve done it once and probably won’t again unless I’m with someone who really wants to do it. In which case I think I’ll use Tom’s technique which I think would be pretty slick and would make me feel like a good steward without feeling more sketched like I would fiddling it.
ratagonia
Huh. I think the over-the arch rappel is elegant and beautiful, and essentially the POINT of doing that otherwise rather mundane route.
Tom
gajslk
Dunno. I’m partial to fixing the first drop, bagging the arch, and ascending back out. That’s a long walk and car shuttle for a very short and very mundane route. Both times I’ve gone I’ve done it that way. If I ever actually do the stunt rappel, I think I’ll volunteer to go back up and get the car … I hate shuttles.
Gordon
Deagol
so rappelling really is the point of doing canyons ??
surprised to hear that from Tom
Edit: I do it to see the arch from a cool angle, don’t need to rap off it, and did see the rope groves on it from people doing just that
adding this for opportunities to use the Moses icon.
ratagonia
Has this become a political discussion, where putting words in someone else’s mouth, then disagreeing with them is considered par for the course?
There are canyons where the cool rappels are the main feature… but that does not mean that the rappels are the point in ALL canyons.
Tom
Canyonero
You’re right. It’s 100 feet, not 200. So two 100 footers plus a pull cord would be required. (Actually, as I recall, our rope was 2 feet off the ground on each side until it was weighted, so if you’re tying knots, you might want 110-120 footers.)
What do you mean by a solid solution that doesn’t leave rope grooves? You mean like a sling with a rap ring connecting a 100 foot rope on one side and a doubled 200 foot rope on the other? I.E. the 200 foot rope is pulled through the ring rather than over any edges and then the 100 footer with the sling just falls? I guess you could even do it without the sling I suppose if you have enough rope.
ratagonia
Ding ding ding. Give the man a Biner! Yup, works like a charm. Just requires one ring. The trick is you can move the ring off center so you can pull the doubled rope without rubbing.
Tom