Mike Zampino said:
I for one check the rigging prior to rappeling no mater who set it up and no matter how many have already gone. Depending on the rappel and set up, it could just be a glance over or a complete check over if I feel it is warranted.
Once when a large group was letting me “play though” I started climbing up to check their anchor. He tried stopping me saying I could get on-rope down lower. I just said, “nothing personal, but I check all riggings before I use them”. Click to expand…
rick t
A needless tragedy. An unsecured (blocked) rope should never be used for a large group rappel practice session. For instructional and safety purposes, it would be good to get a final accident report to explain exactly what happened and why.
Deagol
I am guilty of making a joke about that video. It has made the rounds many times before. I was not, of course, trying to make light of the actual accident. Hope it didn’t come across that way……
Wayne
My post was in reference to the video. After looking back on it I can see that several others had made comments before my post show up. It was in no way trying to make light of the tragic accident. Thanks for calling me on it.
Scott Patterson
Your 4th post and you are going to attempt humor when there was a fatal accident?
I think he’s referring to the video posted.
Wayne
Why are we spending so much good money on expensive equipment when we can make our own equipment and buy some biners from Home Depo.
Mike Zampino
Your 4th post and you are going to attempt humor when there was a fatal accident? The goal here is to hopefully learn and prevent such events in the future.
Brian in SLC
Absolutely. Single or double.
If I have a clear view of the rappel route, and, I’m doubling up a single rope for a double rope rappel, sometimes I’ll thread the rope through the anchor and toss ‘er down, with not as much regard for the rope ends. If I can see one of the ends is short, I’ll “fix” that situation when I get there. I just lock that rope off and continue rappelling until the rope ends work to gain the ground. Fast and easy. Maybe not a technique I’d recommend for just anyone, but, its effective and its good to know that you can slip the rope through the anchor while on the rappel if need be.
Scott Patterson
Yes, all the above is true and I’d even venture to guess that there are more double line rappel accidents, but only because more people rappel double line (especially when not canyoneering). I do wonder what the per capita accident rate for each method would be though. There sure have been quite a few single line accidents.
You are right that messing up the rigging is a main cause of rappelling accidents and that it can be done wrong, regardless of which technique you are using, but as Brian points out there are still more opportunities to screw up a single line rappel.
I’ve probably rappelled more single line than double, but only because that’s what a lot of my friends like to do (even though I sometimes whine about it). For me, I much prefer double line and believe it to be safer for me. For the kids though, single line (at least with the ropes we used) is better and safer for them because of their weight.
There are three main reasons I prefer double line (at least in canyons with no running water or floating disconnects). The first is that it’s easier to set up. The second is that with my weight (~240 lbs), two double strands of the rope I use is usually the ideal amount of friction with one biner with my ATC. When I go single line (especially on an unfamiliar rope), I have to do something else. The third reason is that I like having the extra rope along in case one gets damaged. It is true that I’ve only seen two core shots in all the canyons that I’ve done, but I still like the piece of mind of having a backup rope if needed (you can pass knots, and I have done so, but I don’t like doing it unless I have to).
Unless there are multiple floating disconnects or running water, or if a canyon is extremely tight, I really don’t see that many advantages of single line rappels unless you are a small/lightweight person or have a large diameter rope. Rope for double line rappel does weigh a bit more, but I fail to see why this is a concern in canyons that aren’t either really long, really tight, have a lot of keeper potholes, or have a lot of high stemming or something (and even then I like to have extra rope. For the accident in Pine Creek, for example, I don’t see any advantages at all for doing a single line rappel in canyons like Pine Creek.
Experienced canyoneers still can mess up rappels and especially single line ones (or so it seems to me). The only time I’ve ever lost control on a rappel was when making a stupid mistake on a single line rappel. Luckily I wasn’t killed from my stupid mistake. I know of at least three serious accidents of experienced canyoneers on single line rappels, but agree that any rappel technique can be dangerous if you screw it up.
For me, I believe that double line is safer for me. Of course this is because of other factors such as my weight, the ropes I use, the rappel device that I use, and my preferences. There is a big difference between a 120 lb person vs. a 240 lb person on the same rope/rappel device and there is a big difference between ropes and rappel devices when it comes up to setting up friction. Everyone should know several methods of rappelling (including single line) and use what ever is the best for them and the situation.
That said though, I still believe that single line rappels have more opportunities to screw up.
Mountaineer
An interesting debate, and perhaps one we should splinter out from this accident thread.
Based on my experience, I would say the opposite. However, with more experience perhaps I would argue the other side; so not sure of the relevancy of the debate. Use depends on the situation. I typically use double strand toss ‘n’ go when my son and I are moving quickly. If there are others in my group, perhaps with less experience, I tend to use single strand. I’ve had situations where hair, body, and clothing has been stuck in the rap device. A properly setup contingency single line has helped me tremendously, where I can react quickly and efficiently. Most rescue techniques seem to be easier on single strand, although I know there are methods to haul/lower on a double strand toss ‘n’ go system as well.
Rich Rudow
This has been reported on extensively in the Phoenix area. A tragic accident. A life full of potential was lost. My condolences to the family.
Let me pose an alternate (speculative) thought. Mike Zysman reported from the scene that a munter (instead of clove hitch) was a rational explanation for the accident (see Mike Zampino’s post). Let me suggest that they intended to tie a munter as part of a releasable anchor to lower any inexperienced rappellers that had trouble. Of course, you need to lock the munter with a mule knot AND you must tie an overhand on the line to prevent someone from accidentally releasing the mule knot (or to prevent the weight of the rope from releasing the mule). Perhaps they didn’t tie the overhand to secure the release line and the rope weight released it accidentally? Or someone tripped over the rope and released it?
The ASU Outdoor club is very active in canyoneering. It’s important that new canyoneers practice singe line rappels. The munter / mule releasable is a very effective technique to allow such practice to occur.
Rich
Mike Zysman
Rich, we do not believe this was a rigged as a munter-mule, because the carabiner was found by itself, detached from the the anchor, and still locked. Had it been rigged with a munter-mule, I would expect to find the carabiner still attached to the rapide.
Deagol
Tom,
I really like the write up you do on your tech tips on your website, BTW. The pull end is shown safety-ed off. Seems like this simple action could have prevented something like this.
townsend
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Mountaineer
My sincere condolences to the family and friends. Tragic. My heart goes out to you during this difficult time.
So important. Conditions will also impact things. What if it was a long, cold day? What if your fingers are frozen? Mental fog due to a variety of reasons?
Sometimes more techniques can get us in trouble. I would much rather know just a few simple techniques well, then several just OK. Using the same proven system each and every time will make a difference someday, especially if you keep at this activity. Yes, different situations will demand a different system. However, there is a simple list. And for many of us, those situations have already proven themselves. We just didn’t realize it because we made it back.
Mountaineer
Agree with you Taylor. This is what we teach and use in BSA, the double figure 8.
Kuenn
I’ve tried to be good, but I’m going to rant just a bit. And admittedly, this is pure supposition on my part.
If this was a “beginner accident”, there were more wrongs than just a failing anchor rig. Like, where was the knowledge/experienced person overseeing, arguably, the most critical step of a rappel sequence? And do you cut beginner’s teeth on a 100 footer? This wasn’t an accident, this screams of incompetence! All the way up to the sponsoring institution.
ASU will be extremely fortunate to avoid major litigation from this…and personally, I hope they get their legal-teeth knocked out.
Mike Zysman
I have been through several canyons with Katelyn. While she was not as experienced as many who frequent this forum, she was also not a beginner. She had several years of rappelling experience, lead climbing experience, and completed a 2-day canyoneering class. Unfortunately, this is not a forgiving sport, and sometimes one small mistake is all it takes.
Kuenn
Mike, thank you for adding facts and a depth of feeling that my callous supposition lacked. With the loss of this vibrant young lady, I can only imagine the difficulty you and others are experiencing as you try to make sense of it all, as well as take steps to ensure that it doesn’t happen again.
Even as I typed my previous post, I deliberated if she might have been considered as one of the experienced individuals on the activity. Which, as will unfortunately sometimes happen, makes her less likely to get the safety check consideration that others with less experience receive…but that’s a discussion for another time.
I hope my comments did not add more discomfort to an already painful tragedy for those who knew Katelyn best. Please accept my heartfelt condolences.
Deagol
I love that video, taught me everything I know ….