A meander: the language we use about such events often involves assigning agency to objects. Examples are common in the media, stuff like, “this [mountain, trail, cave…] that has claimed a dozen lives”. Do we do this unconsciously to avoid responsibility?
Trip Report
ski free
Yea been down the canyon 17 or 18 times now and sliding that from the top in a sure fire way to get yourself hurt
delenius
Hank, that’s the spot. You can also see how I’m a bit out of control on it, going down first.
hank moon
Delenius, thanks for the video. At 3:28 there is an exclamation, then “fuck” etc. at 3:33 from the orange-helmeted guy. Assuming this is the break? The slide doesn’t look that bad – not hard to see the attraction.
Continuing the meander with another example of this interesting way we use language (from Time magazine review of “Get on Up,” a movie about the life of James Brown):
“From 1958 to 1986, he landed 116 singles on Billboard’s Hot 100 singles chart, and their irresistible grooves have since been sampled on about 4,ooo songs. His life was just as vibrant, from an impoverished upbringing spent partly in an aunt’s brothel to a determined struggle to wrest control of his career from businessmen a career that fell apart when drugs sapped his judgment and frequently landed him in jail.”
delenius
And for the not-faint-of-heart, here is the video of our trip, where you can see the ankle-breaking slide and the accident happening around 3:12.
delenius
I think a large part of the problem is that this canyon has a lot of tempting “fun stuff” that you don’t actually have to do to descend the canyon. I bet most people get hurt on these optional fun things…
Shane
I agree here. Also along those lines is the fact that, unlike most routes, this route has MANY options you can take to descend any one drop. At any given spot you can choose to rappel, downclimb or jump from several different spots. Everything is WIDE open, some sections are 100 feet wide in which you have many options to pick. This would make in nearly impossible to describe in detail a safe/standard route. An example is below….any of those routes could be done….jumps from that 150′ ledge towards the top could probably be made from anywhere along its length.
AW~
No….its a saudade moment for me as far as canyoneering. Its the new generation now. Cue up Digitalism – “I want a new drug” for more info.
gajslk
Well, thanks anyway. I must say that you’re making a heck of an impression …
Gordo
delenius
For reference, these are the two beta source that I know of:
http://www.dankat.com/swhikes/nkings.htm
http://ropewiki.com/index.php/Jump_Trip_(Lower)
Deborah Davis
Steven Pinker talks about this in his books on language and how the mind works, and based on what he says, it’s not an avoidance of responsibility. I hope I don’t mangle what he says about it too much, but it’s more a reflection of the way the mind organizes and predicts events in the world outside your head.
If that made any sense. Pinker’s books (the ones I’ve read, anyway) spend a fair amount of time talking about this phenomenon.
hank moon
Hi Deborah, thank you for the author reveal. Can you recommend a specific book? Thinking more about this issue, it could be related to the strong tendency we have for judgment, and how we judge. Take matters of taste, such as the pleasure (or not) derived from watching a movie. Afterwards, I might say “that was a great movie” or “that sucked” but others might say “I didn’t like it”. The first approach is external (judging the thing) with the latter judgment on the internal experience. Which brings up classic divergent/divisive political issues (Drugs are bad, m’kay…Guns are dangerous…Guns don’t kill, people do, etc.).
So, one translation of “that canyon has broken a lot of bones” might be, “the hazards in that canyon present a high level of risk – watch your ass” w/o any implied abdication of responsibility.
Thanks for the discussion – it has helped broaden my perspective
Deborah Davis
I don’t think that’s what Pinker concludes in his work. It’s more like what Gordon mentioned, as a very deep legacy of growing up on the savannah. I would recommend ‘The Stuff of Thought’:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Stuff-Thought-Language-Window/dp/0143114247
Pinker analyzes the structure and organization of language and uses that to deduce how the mind works and relates to the outside world. I found this a very hard read – the analysis is deep and subtle, and I don’t pretend to have understood everything he said. The different patterns and quirks of language he pointed out was absolutely fascinating, and I loved the chapter on swearing. That was worth the entire book. If you want to go further, Pinker wrote a book called “How the Mind Works” that goes deeper into language/mind/thought. This was also a lot of work to read, but both books are well worth the effort.
However, and this is really off the topic, if you are only going to read one Pinker book, read “Better Angels of Our Nature”. It’s a study of trends of violence in human society through the ages (and I mean ages; he starts at the dawn of human history), all the way up to present time. Again, the book takes work, although I thought it was easier to read than ‘The Stuff of Thought’. A lot of people won’t make it through the middle third of the book – it’s very data heavy, and if you don’t like discussions of how data were generated and handled, you won’t enjoy that portion (the middle was my favorite part). It’s well worth the effort, however. Well worth it. I consider “Better Angels of Our Nature” a masterpiece.
gajslk
I was just reading about this yesterday, in a book by David DiSalvo. Humans have a need to explain random events. Assigning agency to inanimate objects allows us to do that and “understand” what happened. Interesting stuff.
Gordon
Kuenn
Maybe, Hank…or is it a conscious attempt to divert accountability, with eyes wide open.
Stevee B
On the topic of objective and subjective risk, I suspect we are closer to agreement than your comment suggests.
Unless you are saying that the level of objective risk in this canyon is no higher than in any other, which is what you appear to be saying. Perhaps you mean to say that since the level of objective risk is higher, we should approach it differently? If so, we are already in agreement.
Good article
Kuenn
The later, we are in agreement.
I never did very well in school on essay questions, and it appears still deficient in making a point clear.
Stevee B
I’m afraid I’m not catching the point. Is it different to say that there have been many injuries in this canyon? Happy to say it that way. There have been many injuries in this canyon. A very high proportion compared to any other canyon I’ve visited.
Regarding getting better info out there: there’s been some recent dialogue. I’d put out there what I know but I feel it’s really the place of the first descenders, and they are still grappling a little with this. I can’t speak for them, but it’s my impression it was always their preference to show don’t tell, probably some to keep it quiet, but also a lot because they just hadn’t figured out how to describe the hazards to the relatively inexperienced, it was always easier to show.
I would expect something comprehensive and useful to make its way out soon. Meanwhile I’m happy to answer questions sideband and help as I can.
Kuenn
Granted, it wasn’t a well-made point, a lot of reading between the lines, which is my bad.
I’m not trying to venture into the head games with this, but the “mountain, trail, cave…” or canyon is not out to get you. It doesn’t come to us – when in its backyard we become its subjects. Therefore, our preparation and skill execution (or lack thereof), exposure to unpredictable state changes (i.e. natural, weather, etc.), and beta – all play a role in the success or failure of the navigation attempt. If the injury ratio in this canyon is higher by comparison, the canyon is blameless and none the less affected, what is subject for review is our comprehension of it.
Your offer to provide “useful tips for safe passage” sounds like a much needed proposal here.
hank moon
Great question! Sounds like a fun/hazard map would be good to get outta peoples’ heads and onto…silicon?