It can be easy when it’s set up properly, but it can also be very very hard…..
Overall, in the context of canyoneering, to say “rappelling is easy” is, IMHO, a huge misrepresentation.
Trip Report
It can be easy when it’s set up properly, but it can also be very very hard…..
Overall, in the context of canyoneering, to say “rappelling is easy” is, IMHO, a huge misrepresentation.
EvergreenDean
I’ve been contemplating my response here for a day now. I am personal friends with someone who was on this trip and I have remained silent because my friend stated that the group wanted it that way. I believe in sharing information with the community, and accident reports were an obsession of mine as a fledgling canyoneer. I wanted to know what not to do. I have encouraged my friend to share, and at this time I am reaching out to the victim in hopes that we can open this up. First of all, I will say that the victim here is doing well and has received a tremendous amount of support. It is my belief that it may have been the injured parties wish that this accident not be publicized, and I also believe that the reason for this is the victim feeling like it was their fault alone and did not want the group being blamed publicly. I have tried repeatedly to encourage sharing, and have sent the message that the community would be supportive and sympathetic. Maybe the time is right for the details to be shared, and I will do my best to facilitate the sharing.
I agree with so many of the points made here, and I have personally taken issue with some of this meetup group’s trip plans (violations of group size restrictions being the primary issue). I understand that lack of information has led to much of this speculation as well, and I will take a moment to play devil’s advocate here. As a noobie, I put myself at risk in many ways. I enthusiastically replied to every post on the blogs, put up trip reports of every canyon I did and got my name out there in short order. Before I knew it, name recognition led to the impression that I had experience that I didn’t have. I was thrilled to be accepted by expert groups and played along, acting like I was one of them. In more than one instance I found myself on trips that were potentially above my skill level, with folks that assumed I knew more than I did. It culminated in my sliding off the wrong side of the rope in a group of folks many would consider to be canyon legends. Somehow, I escaped any injury, landing on my feet then my ass (being a dumbass, I do know how to take a fall). I remember one of the pros looking me in the eye and telling me “you are VERY lucky”. This is just one of the gut-checks I experienced as I essentially faked my way into the pro crowd. The point here is this: There are many ways that noobs can end up in situations that lead to accidents. In my case, I would never have blamed these folks for my stupidity and I would also have felt horrible if they had taken the blame for it. The event where my close call took place is already notorious and many would have relished in the opportunity for an “I told ya so”.
That being said, no one needed to fake their way onto this trip, and I doubt the victim did anything to misrepresent their skills. I am not certain, but I think the victim may not even have been as new as all are assuming. The points about the risks being adequately stated, and the leaders taking responsibility for noobs are all on point, but we just don’t know for sure if those played into this accident…yet. I hope folks learn something from my own admissions here and I will do my best to get the facts out regarding this accident so we can help others avoid the same mistakes, whatever they were. I think the best way to facilitate that is to keep the tone civil and try to avoid assumptions until we can learn the truth. Great points here and let’s keep sharing so we can all be safe and have fun.
Bootboy
edit: redundancy
Bootboy
Such leaders set the tone on these trips that fosters that non judgmental aire of trust where one need not feel self-conscious about voicing concerns. That kind of environment is an invaluable component of a successful and safe trip, where you’re not relying on luck or even the skills of individuals for safe passage, but more an environment created by the individuals, and that starts with a good leader and organizer.
Chris Hood
I really appreciate the effort you put in posting this Malia, and remember well the sick feeling in camp after learning about the ongoing drama happening nearby. The heuristics comment is well presented, and triggers reminders of a number of multiple fatality avalanche accidents that occurred over a short time span in the Columbia Mountains of BC. One thing with these accidents, however, was that there was a fair amount of experience across the groups, and the deferral was due to acceptance of the de facto leader’s “local terrain/conditions knowledge”. In these situations, I suspect that a lack of familiarity with the leader prevented a level of interaction that allowed for expression of concern where conditions were marginal. This highlights the value of developing a network of trusted individuals, something that meet-ups inherently avoid. That said, it is important to find ways of incorporating inexperienced canyoneers into the framework, and allow them to develop a level of confidence in (relative) safety.
There are two examples of this that I would use to highlight behaviors that I find to be very positive in our extended group. One canyoneer of some notoriety makes a huge effort at interacting with less experienced members of the group, guiding them to new skills without putting them at risk. I have been fortunate to have both observed and been the beneficiary of this approach. It allows the more experienced person to observe the safety systems, while simultaneously teaching new skills to the newer canyoneer. The other example stems from a recent planned trip to a much-desired canyon. The trip fell victim to marginal weather conditions, but my initial response was that the trip was doable, albeit with a little discomfort (an unfortunate side effect of my Canadian heritage and too many Freezefests). Cooler heads prevailed, and my wiser intended partners helped me to a decision that I was very reluctant to make: cancellation for a second time this year. It helps to know that your partners will help these decisions along without worrying about the reaction. That level of trust is something I find truly valuable.
msmnificent
So what do we do?
Try to reform the Meetup groups somehow?
Infiltrate the Meetup groups in order to provide the sorts of events where developing skills in a safe environment is the focus?
Get conversations about safety started in more places in order to try to make it available in places that a noob might stumble upon (such as all the beta sites and all the forums)?
Get information about heuristics out to all the SAR teams so it gets talked about any time there is an accident report that makes it to the media?
Who’s going to do all this, and how do we make sure the effort is sustained over time?
One idea I had a while ago when there were a bunch of accidents all at once is to have a volunteer host/greeter program in the North Wash where there is a high concentration of noobs (maybe organized by the CAC in conjunction with the local SAR and the BLM managers of the area). Every weekend there would be a friendly, knowledgable, experienced canyoneer volunteer who makes a point to go around and meet all the groups in the area. They could answer questions and provide information about the canyons, canyoneering resources, etc. It would be a way to reach new canyoneers who don’t yet know about the resources that the canyoneering community has available to help them out. I think that one of the best aspects of canyoneering for me has been the strong community that exists with canyoneering. I fear that as the sport grows the community is becoming less connected. This could be a way to try to build stronger connections…
Kuenn
One way, as this thread has reinforced and eloquently articulated, is to not cover up. And I am certainly sympathetic to all the reason one would want to conceal (as well as guilty thereof).
Disclosure does not mean name dropping. One can expose the mistakes without manufacturing culpability. Will some find a way to cast blame or guilt? Sure they will. (Alas, you cannot control what others say or do.)
In this narrow instance, media outlets can actually do a great service (can’t believe I’m typing this). By developing awareness in such things as: How safe or dangerous is the sport? What level of skill should one possess before attempting it? Where do I go and who can teach me the needed skills?
As last resort, maybe a tat or brand across the forehead, “TRAINED”.
Mountaineer
Love the thread, and agree completely! Awareness (here on this forum for one), building the community, taking more responsibility for when are the “leader”. I’m really glad to see the participation and support, as I have felt some resistance to these ideas in the past. Most likely from my rookie perception to canyoneering.
Challenge is sustaining. Beta, internet, signs/trail posts, volunteer training. It takes the community, and all of these things will bring impact.
It starts with each one of us. Each can make a difference.
Hooray.
Bootboy
Well said, Scott.
That window of knowledge where you have enough of it to get into serious trouble, and not enough to get out is a dangerous place to be.
msmnificent
When I take noobs out I joke with them that the reason I’ll keep a close eye on them and won’t let anything bad happen to them is because it would ruin my reputation if something bad happened under my watch. In reality I do my best to keep them safe for the reasons stated by Luke.
What I have learned from the example set by the person who led the Meetup event I refer to is that I don’t need to worry about my reputation. I can bring a noob into a difficult canyon that has advanced rope work, high stemming, exposure, and a sketchy, strenuous exit hike, only to have it f#*! them up, and still have people who are willing to follow me into more sketchy choices of canyons… I just have to do it through a Meetup group where the people signing up have no idea what they’re getting into! Yay!
Bootboy
Now that I know the canyon that this took place in (based on the photo), it’s startling to me that a meetup group got in there. That last rap has some bad juju.
Had anyone in the group done the canyon before?
If so, it hardly seems like a place any responsible and experienced canyoneer should be taking a meetup group. Kind of disappointing in that regard, the poor judgement of the organizer, that is.
As far as keeping a lid on things. I’m all for keeping this stuff out of the news, though it hardly seems that canyoneers have much control once outside, publicly funded organizations (county SAR) get involved. I am however an advocate of sharing this information tactfully and academically within the community, so that active members can discuss, analyze, and learn.
Bluu
I was one of those friends they were waiting for and hoping it was not us that the SAR teams were out for. Shortly after the incident I heard what had happened and was impacted by this deeply. I had the normal level of yuck in the gut hearing someone had an accident and was hurt. But the injury itself or who it might have been was not what impacted me so deeply.
A noob (new to canyoneering) was being taken out to a canyon to be shown a good time. That noob invested trust in the person who invited them. After the trip the noob has had their life changed for the worse for the REST OF THIER LIFE! A noob is just that, new, meaning they do not have a full grasp of the dangers involved and put their life in the hands of the people who invite them. I mean this quite literally, they place their lives in the hands of those showing them the ropes (pun intended there). When you read the rest of the meetup posting for that trip it did make the trip sound like no big deal and just a bunch of fun. I can only assume the noob read the meetup post and thought it sounded fun and not really dangerous at all since the organizers were talking it up and showing little concern of any dangers.
What troubles me most is that the accident could have been avoided with the simple act of the organizer(s) / leader(s) being the guardian angel to the noobs THEY invited along. Simply watching them at all times and looking for the simple stuff like getting on the correct side of a rope, attaching to the proper place on a harness, checking all anchors and backing things up etc, is all it would have taken to prevent this. The most troubling part is that a noob placed total trust in the person(s) leading the trip and when that lead person(s) did not take the time to keep a watchful eye on the noob and be the guardian angel for the person THEY had invited, the noob had their whole life turned upside down.
If even one new person reads this thread and has second thoughts about going with people they do not trust then maybe it will help prevent an injury. If more people see it then chances of this thread helping go up.
If you are new, take the time to ask some basic questions about what you should know before you venture out with an unknown leader. Before you go out at a minimum have someone teach you to rappel safely and practice it enough so you are semi comfortable. Know how to check your harness and rappel rig and know you are at least set up ok. At least you will be semi comfortable in the gear you are wearing and can then take on the task of looking at and learning other things. Before you go on a trip with a would be leader TALK TO THEM. Let the leader know you have no skills and are counting on them to get you through safe. Maybe that conversation will help raise their awareness to take care of you. You can not be a fortune teller and if you want to enjoy life you have to take some risks. But if you are new and see this thread please remind yourself you are trusting the person you go out with. There is no magic answer about how to get started. Use your head and don’t place a halo on someone just because they say they are great and have it all under control. This is a good time for me to add “Question Everything”! By questioning you can help your leader work toward safety and you will learn more and be better able to worry about safety yourself.
If even one would be group leader / organizer reads this thread and decides to take their roll more seriously then maybe once again this thread will help prevent injury or death. If more would be leaders read this then maybe the odds of making a difference increase again.
If you are a would be leader, please do not neglect the people you are leading / guiding / teaching. They do not know the dangers or have the skill set required to enjoy the wonderful sport you are showing them. If you are inviting, leading, guiding or organizing trips for new people, at a bare minimum adopt the mind set to be their guardian angel while they are with you. Remember YOU invited them or are at least the one showing them the ropes. Again there is no magic bullet on how to go about this safely. You can take courses, have lots of experience, actively teach skills to others or many other things. Depending on your mind set these things do not make you a safe leader. Many people learn as they go and become great canyoneers. The biggest step you can take is to realize your noobs count on your for their very lives and when taking new people you need to do things even more safe than you would with your experienced buds. Not only do you need to keep them safe, you also need to realize your noobs will learn by watching you. Be uber safe and maybe they will absorb that mind set and be better off for it.
Ok rant / soapbox = off
Be safe out there and take care of each other!
Luke
Scott Patterson
I believe the reason that it is so dangerous is because it only little knowledge to set yourself (or others) up on a rope, but if something goes wrong and you don’t know how to fix it or control it, you’re screwed.
Occasionally, experienced canyoneers or any rappeller make mistakes as well. Unfortunately, it doesn’t take much error to kill or injure you on a rappel.
Some of the climbing books and climbing manuals I have even go as far as to say to minimize rappelling and to do it only when necessary and never do it for fun. Of course, there are people who would disagree with this, but there have been a lot of rappelling accidents.
msmnificent
YES! Well put Scott!
And it takes even less knowledge to put yourself on rope incorrectly!
hank moon
Hi Scott.
Activity, hazard, risk, ways to screw up…a little blended together here and there, but the message in the end is good and clear. Nicely done.
Was this featured?
SCard
Here is the text of a little warning I prepared for the Zion Canyoneering Rendezvous. It went in every swag bag at registration. Yes, it was meant to warn, but also, as will be obvious if you read it, tell people that they are responsible for themselves and that there is a lot more to it than hiking with ropes. My list of potential risks is not inclusive but I think it was sufficient.
“RENDEZOUS noun – to assemble at an agreed time and place, a favorite or popular gathering place.
Welcome to the Zion Canyoneering Rendezvous! Yes, Rendezvous. That means we are all here to have some fun and canyoneer. This is a gathering of a bunch of like-minded, fun people WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES. You are responsible for you, you are adults, unless you have kids, in which case you are responsible for them (not us!). THE INHERENT EXTREME RISKS IN TECHNICAL CANYONEERING, ROCK CLIMBING, HIKING AND GENERAL DESERT ACTIVITIES, ARE, BUT NOT LIMITED TO climbing rappelling, hiking on steep terrain, cold water swimming, desert living, up and/or down climbing, stemming, chimneying, and other technical aspects of climbing and canyoneering and desert activities. YOU realize that those risks include, but are not limited to: death, falls from or contact with cliffs, rocks, deep slot canyons, slick rock, pot holes, bad decision-making, inattention of belayers or action of other participants, misuse or failure of equipment, anchors which may have become loose or damaged, and freakish accidents which cannot be foreseen.
Again, you are responsible for you. The organizers of the event are just that, organizers. If you choose to canyoneer, you do it at your own risk and if you go into a canyon, you assume the risk and everyone with you assumes you know what you are doing. HAVE FUN, BE SAFE AND DON’T END UP IN THE MEDIA! ”
Critique away!
ratagonia
And how many first time beginners showed up without a responsible adult to keep track of them?
Context is important. A Rendezvous is designed for, and draws an audience of, canyoneers with at least some experience. Those few without experience at the Rendezvous are directed to resources that will accommodate their lack of experience. (We call this appropriate leadership).
The MEETUP system, on the other hand, seems to be a place for advanced beginner organizers to find partners with LIMITED or NO experience and go off and do fairly advanced canyons (as in this example) in large groups.
Tom
Kuenn
I like this discussion and what has been said.
Random thoughts…
The organization of meet up groups (or any group for that matter) can be as dynamic as the environment you’re exploring. My experience has taught that distribution is key; skilled astute players need to pair up or be in the vicinity of those with less astuteness. I use astute rather than skill purposefully. The level of one’s skill does not always translate to safe actions.
“At risk” or “At your own risk” clause is way too often taken far too passive – particularly in extreme activities. It obliges the participant of the higher likelihood of losing something, of hazardous and harmful potential. Too often it’s viewed only as a cover-your-rear legal statement by the establishment. Where as it should be viewed as personal ownership.
Rappelling is easy? Maybe. For sure, the effect of gravity is easy; controlling it can be a bit more complicated.
Lastly, Malia coming to the forefront after an apparent conscious unsettling is gratifying. We’ve probably all been there at one time or another, or two. I’m an advocate of full disclosure and letting the chips fall where they may. Especially when there is valuable learning to come of it.
hank moon
Clap clap clap! well said.
AW~
There is something weird about large groups of people who dont know each other anyway. Toss in that the group has wildly varying experience levels….with what I would call a high ratio of lesser experienced to more experienced.