Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
scott patterson
“ehhh. I don’t remember exactly what Steve said about it (BD) …but I do remember him recalling details about the anchors from previous trips… We did do another drainage in the area that Steve had not done – maybe that’s what you are remembering?”  Yes, that’s the one. I couldn’t remember which drainage (it’s been nine years ago now), but I thought it was BD.
Shaun
any thoughts on these bolts. don’t appear to be normal bolts used in climbing/canyoning. hardware store special? safe? poorly done?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
> Looks like someone posted a photo of the anchor over on Bogley last > year.
Baptist Anchor (Big Drop): http://www.bogley.com/forum/files/bd0093.jpg
> The anchor looks similar as of Nov 26, 2011 except the nuts have been > replaced but chains still present and someone added 2 tie in points. > Perhaps one for instructor (guide) and student (client)?
Need to get my other photos.
Ryan
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Hey Ram!!
I am out for FreezeFest, I had knee surgery 2 weeks ago and am > non-ambulatory for another 4 weeks. Then another 6 weeks of rehab. > Should be go to for March canyons though…
I will be looking for a few winter (easier) ascents towards the end of > February if you are around…
Happy holidaze!
Peace
Tony
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” adkramoo@ wrote:
What ya doing FreezeFest, Tony? 😉
> Truth be told, it sounds like a hopeless mess. It has been a decade > since I have been there. I recall natural anchor options at all the > drops. Sport routes, on poor quality rock, not in a sport climbing area, > but the middle of a slot? What do others think about it?
> Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at > least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were > loose!!
I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about > unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this > one…
Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?… >
Tony
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure > play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor > location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the > rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap > rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? > We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt > anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged > and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and > were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to > climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of > reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting > this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a > bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half > way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and > at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right > to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts > beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any > thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes > in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just > below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several > 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes > started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really > new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in > Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up > the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an > odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education > group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
> >
Ryan
Looks like someone posted a photo of the anchor over on Bogley last year.
Baptist Anchor (Big Drop): http://www.bogley.com/forum/files/bd0093.jpg
The anchor looks similar as of Nov 26, 2011 except the nuts have been replaced but chains still present and someone added 2 tie in points. Perhaps one for instructor (guide) and student (client)?
Need to get my other photos.
Ryan
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Hey Ram!! > I am out for FreezeFest, I had knee surgery 2 weeks ago and am non-ambulatory for another 4 weeks. Then another 6 weeks of rehab. Should be go to for March canyons though… > I will be looking for a few winter (easier) ascents towards the end of February if you are around… > Happy holidaze!
Peace > Tony
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” adkramoo@ wrote:
What ya doing FreezeFest, Tony? 😉
Truth be told, it sounds like a hopeless mess. It has been a decade since I have been there. I recall natural anchor options at all the drops. Sport routes, on poor quality rock, not in a sport climbing area, but the middle of a slot? What do others think about it?
Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!!
> I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this one…
> Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?…
Tony
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
>
tonyferdensi
Hey Ram!! I am out for FreezeFest, I had knee surgery 2 weeks ago and am non-ambulatory for another 4 weeks. Then another 6 weeks of rehab. Should be go to for March canyons though… I will be looking for a few winter (easier) ascents towards the end of February if you are around… Happy holidaze!
Peace Tony
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
What ya doing FreezeFest, Tony? 😉 > Truth be told, it sounds like a hopeless mess. It has been a decade since I have been there. I recall natural anchor options at all the drops. Sport routes, on poor quality rock, not in a sport climbing area, but the middle of a slot? What do others think about it? > Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!!
I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this one…
Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?…
Tony
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
>
phil
Not that unusual to have bolt anchors on the top of crack climbs. Especially if the climb is mid-wall or has no natural anchors to top-rope off of. Such rappel/top-rope anchors can actually be less damaging than natural anchors (i.e the context of ten years worth of dialog on this forum).
Obviously this all boils down to personal opinion and “local standards”, for whatever that means, but “traditional” climbing has almost always been more flexible in practice than the name implies.
Phillip Rhoades
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
We saw two areas with bolts for climbing.
Second Area:
The other set of anchors that we noticed was just below the confluence of Baptist and Chute. Again canyoneers left just up canyon of the third drop. The anchors (2 bolts/webbing/rap rings) protected the 80-100′ hand crack.
Love that. Bolts to protect a crack climb!
> Might have some photos if people are interested.
Yes, interested. Thank you. > Ram >
moabmatt
The anchor bolts at that last drop in Baptist definitely aren’t necessary, though I can see how it provides a less awkward start and more comfortable staging area for the rappel than the original anchor boulder. However, if people would just become more comfortable with sitting starts to their rappels then some of these slightly awkward starts would be less of an issue. I’m always amazed at how stubborn some folks are about starting every rappel – especially sharply overhung starts or those with very low-situated anchors – on their feet when simply sitting down on their hip and scooting over the edge on their side would be way easier on both the body and anchor.
One ridiculous aspect to the bolts is that the three chains hanging off of each bolt are not long enough to create a single, equalized attachment point. You have to use webbing to equalize the chains. I suppose, in a way, it’s a good thing they’re far apart because if the installers had placed the bolts close enough together to bring the chains to one point you’d have way too tight of a bolt pattern. Perhaps what I consider to be inadequately lengthed anchor chains are a new rigging technique that I’m not aware of? Maybe there is a reason for such short chains.
Regarding the climbs up canyon, I’ve noticed climbs not only on canyon left but a couple further down on canyon right. For what it’s worth, the rock is Coconino, not Navajo. I’m all for extending the day with a bit of climbing, but placing many closely spaced bolts for mediocre, 30′ tall climbs in a beautiful slot is in poor taste, in my opinion. There certainly are many other places, even along that loop, that would be far more appropriate for cheesy sport routes. There is, however, always opportunity to sit in some shade where the climbs are so maybe that was a consideration.
Seems like the kinda thing an institution or other organized group would do. And, such a group would need a permit from the BLM to operate there. I can’t imagine the BLM being cool with the bolts, especially since it’s in a designated Area of Wilderness Character (though unfortunately that doesn’t mean much anymore). Still.
moabmatt
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
The bolts at the last drop have been “fixed”.
Still hardwear bolts but it looks like they have been reglued (?) and new nuts have been added so everything is tight.
However who ever put them in did not fill the holes completely with glue so water can enter the drill hole and eventually everything will work loose with freeze/thaw. The nuts looked new – maybe this summer? Probably replaced the same time the bolts in the upper canyon where added.
Not sure why bolts are even needed here. Lots of huge rocks for a natural anchor.
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, scott patterson wrote:
“Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!! ”
Yes, they were really loose if you are speaking of the ones at the last drop.  They were loose enough that I pulled out the hangar with my bare hands when giving the sling a good tug.   I packed out the hangar, but couldn’t pull the loose bolt with my hands even though I could spin it.
Later people said that the hangars have been replaced, but that they also were loose as were the bolts.
They weren’t climbing bolts, but were hardware store bolts and were the same type that were placed at the Upper Black Box.
>
RAM
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
We saw two areas with bolts for climbing. > Second Area:
The other set of anchors that we noticed was just below the confluence of Baptist and Chute. Again canyoneers left just up canyon of the third drop. The anchors (2 bolts/webbing/rap rings) protected the 80-100′ hand crack.
Love that. Bolts to protect a crack climb!
> Might have some photos if people are interested.
Yes, interested. Thank you. Ram
Ryan
We saw two areas with bolts for climbing.
First area:
Just below (or at the end) of the first set of narrows on canyoneers left. This area had at least 2 sets of hangers (bolts/chains) for top roping – maybe 3 if memory serves correct. There was at least one set of bolts (4-5) for lead climbing to one of the anchors. There might have been more if I had stood and looked long enough. Everything looked shinny and new.
Second Area:
The other set of anchors that we noticed was just below the confluence of Baptist and Chute. Again canyoneers left just up canyon of the third drop. The anchors (2 bolts/webbing/rap rings) protected the 80-100′ hand crack.
There might be other areas but those were the only ones we noticed. All the bolts are shinny and new and the hardware at the big rap had been replaced.
Might have some photos if people are interested.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, jjim9922@… wrote:
I’d actually like to hear a bit more about it,and about other routes on the Swell. I don’t post too much on this site, but I’ve been a member for a long time and I work for the BLM on the Price Field Office as a river ranger on Desolation Canyon. I’ve done a fair amount of canyoneering, too. It’s been 3-4 years since I’ve been down Baptist Draw, but it’s a nice little route that deserves respect. It should probably be considered a historic route; if I remember right Steve Allen did it in the early 80s. The sport climbing is meager, at best. As has been pointed out, it’s short routes on shaky Navajo sandstone.
Most of the canyoneering routes in the San Rafael have been treated well, but honestly, the BLM has not been terribly active in managing things out there for a while. Going back to the early days of Utah canyoneering, the San Rafael Swell was a prime destination. There are some classic routes — Quandary Canyon and Knotted Rope seem to still get a lot of use — but I think we all found more interesting diversions elsewhere. I may be wrong, but I think it just doesn’t get the attention it used to. We could really use the input of you folks that are in the field to help guide us. There are some routes — Seeger’s Hole and the Squeeze, for example, that we simply don’t hear about anymore. I should say, officially, that it would be a good idea to direct your observations/complaints to the Bureau of Land Management, Price Field Office, 125 S. 600 W., Price, UT. 84501. That would make it official. If you want to be unofficial, write to me on this email address: jjim9922@…
As for the bolts — I suppose I should make it clear that I do not speak for the BLM or the Department of the Interior – but the word on the street is that neither Newt Gingrich nor Barack Obama would object to a little stone maintenance on Baptist Draw.
Jim Wright
—–Original Message—– > From: RAM Truth be told, it sounds like a hopeless mess. It has been a decade since I have been there. I recall natural anchor options at all the drops. Sport routes, on poor quality rock, not in a sport climbing area, but the middle of a slot? What do others think about it? > Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!!
I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this one…
Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?…
Tony
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see themÂ…
>
hank moon
ehhh. I don’t remember exactly what Steve said about it (BD) …but I do remember him recalling details about the anchors from previous trips… We did do another drainage in the area that Steve had not done – maybe that’s what you are remembering?
hank
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:53 AM, scott patterson kesscokim@yahoo.com>wrote:
> **
> “It should probably be considered a historic route; if I remember right > Steve Allen did it in the early 80s.”
My memory is vague, but several years ago when we did NF Trail Canyon I > seem to remember that Hank Moon said that he did Baptist Draw with Steve > Allen in the early 2000’s because Steve hadn’t been there to that time and > he wanted to see it?
Hank?
>
>
Ryan
The bolts at the last drop have been “fixed”.
Still hardwear bolts but it looks like they have been reglued (?) and new nuts have been added so everything is tight.
However who ever put them in did not fill the holes completely with glue so water can enter the drill hole and eventually everything will work loose with freeze/thaw. The nuts looked new – maybe this summer? Probably replaced the same time the bolts in the upper canyon where added.
Not sure why bolts are even needed here. Lots of huge rocks for a natural anchor.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, scott patterson wrote:
“Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!! ”
> Yes, they were really loose if you are speaking of the ones at the last drop.  They were loose enough that I pulled out the hangar with my bare hands when giving the sling a good tug.   I packed out the hangar, but couldn’t pull the loose bolt with my hands even though I could spin it.
Later people said that the hangars have been replaced, but that they also were loose as were the bolts.
They weren’t climbing bolts, but were hardware store bolts and were the same type that were placed at the Upper Black Box.
>
scott patterson
“Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!! ”
Yes, they were really loose if you are speaking of the ones at the last drop.  They were loose enough that I pulled out the hangar with my bare hands when giving the sling a good tug.   I packed out the hangar, but couldn’t pull the loose bolt with my hands even though I could spin it.
Later people said that the hangars have been replaced, but that they also were loose as were the bolts.
They weren’t climbing bolts, but were hardware store bolts and were the same type that were placed at the Upper Black Box.
jjim9922@aol.com
I’d actually like to hear a bit more about it,and about other routes on the Swell. I don’t post too much on this site, but I’ve been a member for a long time and I work for the BLM on the Price Field Office as a river ranger on Desolation Canyon. I’ve done a fair amount of canyoneering, too. It’s been 3-4 years since I’ve been down Baptist Draw, but it’s a nice little route that deserves respect. It should probably be considered a historic route; if I remember right Steve Allen did it in the early 80s. The sport climbing is meager, at best. As has been pointed out, it’s short routes on shaky Navajo sandstone.
Most of the canyoneering routes in the San Rafael have been treated well, but honestly, the BLM has not been terribly active in managing things out there for a while. Going back to the early days of Utah canyoneering, the San Rafael Swell was a prime destination. There are some classic routes — Quandary Canyon and Knotted Rope seem to still get a lot of use — but I think we all found more interesting diversions elsewhere. I may be wrong, but I think it just doesn’t get the attention it used to. We could really use the input of you folks that are in the field to help guide us. There are some routes — Seeger’s Hole and the Squeeze, for example, that we simply don’t hear about anymore. I should say, officially, that it would be a good idea to direct your observations/complaints to the Bureau of Land Management, Price Field Office, 125 S. 600 W., Price, UT. 84501. That would make it official. If you want to be unofficial, write to me on this email address: jjim9922@aol.com.
As for the bolts — I suppose I should make it clear that I do not speak for the BLM or the Department of the Interior – but the word on the street is that neither Newt Gingrich nor Barack Obama would object to a little stone maintenance on Baptist Draw.
Jim Wright
—–Original Message—– From: RAM adkramoo@aol.com> To: canyons Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:17 pm Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Bolted Climbing Routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon – lots of new bolts.
What ya doing FreezeFest, Tony? 😉 Truth be told, it sounds like a hopeless mess. It has been a decade since I have been there. I recall natural anchor options at all the drops. Sport routes, on poor quality rock, not in a sport climbing area, but the middle of a slot? What do others think about it? Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!! > I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this one… > Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?…
Tony > — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see themÂ…
RAM
What ya doing FreezeFest, Tony? 😉 Truth be told, it sounds like a hopeless mess. It has been a decade since I have been there. I recall natural anchor options at all the drops. Sport routes, on poor quality rock, not in a sport climbing area, but the middle of a slot? What do others think about it? Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “tonyferdensi” wrote:
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!! > I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this one… > Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?…
Tony > — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
tonyferdensi
Those bolts heading into Upper Chute have been there since at least fall 2008. They are not placed well for rope pull, and they were loose!! I recall a discussion at one of last year’s rendezvous about unnecessary bolts in the canyons and no one had an answer about this one… Do I detect a bolt removal crew passing through sometime soon?…
Tony — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
RAM
Congrats on your new canine companion….As long as we are talking about being touched., you and your old companions Gemmie (sp)always stood out for the free expression of affection. All you need is love! Can you teach new dogs old tricks? Note the last picture and caption. Miss ya Rob http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0701freeze/index272.htm
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rob” wrote:
Oh, what did the sweet little puppies do to you? I’ll invite you to my 50th birthday bash in Moab in January, but you’ll have to put up with walks with Nahanni. She does a leaping cheek kiss that I find so endearing. I’m sure you’d be touched.
Rob
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
just as dog begets dog.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
shiadilaah
Sick, disgusting, and totally predictable. Bolts are the great equalizer. They make anything possible for anybody, and for that reason fighting them is impossible.
Would love to know who was responsible for this particular mess.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
Rob
Oh, what did the sweet little puppies do to you? I’ll invite you to my 50th birthday bash in Moab in January, but you’ll have to put up with walks with Nahanni. She does a leaping cheek kiss that I find so endearing. I’m sure you’d be touched.
Rob
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
just as dog begets dog.
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
>
Ryan
Yeah bummer.
It seemed like maybe a outdoor group using it for an adventure play ground? Teach climbing/belaying in the upper canyon, albeit a poor location for a group to stand for half a day, and then continue to the rap clinic down canyon? The first rap had a bunch of unnecessary rap rings placed in the quick links indicating they pulled a lot of ropes? We removed these.
The anchor at the big drop into Chute had a poorly done 3 bolt anchor with two tie in points – one for student and one for instructor?
The third rap/down climb in Chute had a cheep nylon rope rigged and left. We tried to remove but only after over coming the obstale and were unable to pull it given all the friction. We didn’t have time to climb back up and remove.
Seems like a poor place to put routes for a whole lot of reasons. It would be nice to get in contact with who ever is putting this stuff in… smells like a group/school to me.
Ryan
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them…
>
RAM
Ahhhh geez. Its white, soft Navajo sandstone there! With a bizillion Wingate cliffs untouched, someone is going sport climbing half way down a slot canyon? In an area not accessible much of the year and at higher altitude? What gives? Hey but its OK! Everyone has the right to place bolts wherever they want, right? Free country, right? Bolts beget bolts and graffiti begets graffiti, just as dog begets dog. Any thoughts on who might have done this and why?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Just returning from a quick trip to the swell.
We were really surprised to find some bolted climbing routes in Baptist and Upper Chute Canyon.
The first set of bolted climbing routes were in Baptist just below the first set of narrows on a low angle slab. There were several 30-40′ sport routes and at least 3 sets of chained anchors. The routes started from the floor of the canyon. Chains and bolts looked really new.
The second climbing route was at the last rap (3rd rap in Toms guide). It was an anchor (bolts webbing and rap ring about 100′ up the hand crack that starts just above the obstacle.
Anyone know the story behind these routes? Seemed like an odd place to have climbing routes. Perhaps a school or outdoor education group put them in?
Can’t say I was very happy to see them… >