Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
aj.outdoors
Who was complaining about shins? I was up front, and didn’t hear anything like that…
Usually, I’ll move my kneepads down to my shins for bushwhacking and/or ice breaking. The neo on a wetsuit usually gives enough protection though. Sure, might get some bruising, but it’s usually not too bad. (Obviously, Jud ran into special and unexpected conditions…)
If I know I’m doing some serious bushwhacking – which would also apply to ice breaking; I’ve worn soccer pads, including the plastic inserts to protect from thorns (used to do that for some of the adventure races in days past…) Similar to the stuff posted by Rick…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Actually many a complaint was heard in the Hole on New Year’s Day about raw shins from ice breaking. As if these people have any right to complain, due to voluntary insanity. I have also gotten raw shins from post holing in the snow, during canyon adventure. The place that comes most to mind is the death gully in Mystery in the spring. Ummmm. > R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
In reflecting on those pictures of Jud’s bloody skins, and recalling my own bloody shins when I finished bushwacking the approach into the right fork, I think I have an idea for a new…
spinesnaper
Now that’s what I am talking about!
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
I’d be glad to sell you the legs from my old wetsuit. how about 25$ ????
Tom
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Tom
You are just never going to get ahead as a merchant if you can’t learn to sell us things we really don’t need.
Ken
>
TomJones
I’d be glad to sell you the legs from my old wetsuit. how about 25$ ????
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
> Tom
You are just never going to get ahead as a merchant if you can’t learn to sell us things we really don’t need.
Ken >
spinesnaper
Tom
You are just never going to get ahead as a merchant if you can’t learn to sell us things we really don’t need.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
It’s called “the legs cut off your last wetsuit”. Soccer shin-guards could help.
Tom
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
In reflecting on those pictures of Jud’s bloody skins, and recalling my own bloody shins when I finished bushwacking the approach into the right fork, I think I have an idea for a new canyoneering product. I was inspired by a bike ride I just finished. It was cold down by the Beach in Santa Monica so I pulled out my leg warmers. If Tom is reading this, I wonder if there would be a market for a neoprene legwarmer/shin protector-6mm on the front surface and 3 mm on the back. Call them Paria Ice Breakers. A specialized item no doubt. However it might find application in those situations where you need a little amphibious lower leg protection but don’t want or need to bother with the wetsuit. Tom just supply the URL if it’s already out there.
Ken
>
TomJones
It’s called “the legs cut off your last wetsuit”. Soccer shin-guards could help.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
In reflecting on those pictures of Jud’s bloody skins, and recalling my own bloody shins when I finished bushwacking the approach into the right fork, I think I have an idea for a new canyoneering product. I was inspired by a bike ride I just finished. It was cold down by the Beach in Santa Monica so I pulled out my leg warmers. If Tom is reading this, I wonder if there would be a market for a neoprene legwarmer/shin protector-6mm on the front surface and 3 mm on the back. Call them Paria Ice Breakers. A specialized item no doubt. However it might find application in those situations where you need a little amphibious lower leg protection but don’t want or need to bother with the wetsuit. Tom just supply the URL if it’s already out there.
Ken >
RAM
Actually many a complaint was heard in the Hole on New Year’s Day about raw shins from ice breaking. As if these people have any right to complain, due to voluntary insanity. I have also gotten raw shins from post holing in the snow, during canyon adventure. The place that comes most to mind is the death gully in Mystery in the spring. Ummmm. R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
In reflecting on those pictures of Jud’s bloody skins, and recalling my own bloody shins when I finished bushwacking the approach into the right fork, I think I have an idea for a new canyoneering product. I was inspired by a bike ride I just finished. It was cold down by the Beach in Santa Monica so I pulled out my leg warmers. If Tom is reading this, I wonder if there would be a market for a neoprene legwarmer/shin protector-6mm on the front surface and 3 mm on the back. Call them Paria Ice Breakers. A specialized item no doubt. However it might find application in those situations where you need a little amphibious lower leg protection but don’t want or need to bother with the wetsuit. Tom just supply the URL if it’s already out there.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Actually you make many very good points. It seems that a lot more knowledge has been acquired and shared about winter canyoning in only the last few years. Who knows if that event is as rare as has been speculated? Was it a dam downriver? No one I know, knows for sure. I don’t think they gave much thought to temperatures, due to never knowing of the area holding any water of any depth. Sometimes it matters, sometimes not.
The New Year’s Black Hole this year? With no sun, cold air sinking to the canyon bottom and temps near 20 on the rim, I am guessing it was low teens in the canyon and it just didn’t matter that much. We thought it would have a much bigger impact. Just had to splash icy rock with water and use the freshly splashed spot for holds fast, before it froze up again.
As you said eloquently,”Part of the joy of reading Jud’s story is knowing that the strange and wonderful terrain you are traveling through has a malevolent side. ” I would add that we are such small fragile bags of water and truly….the wilderness doesn’t care in the least, about us! Kinda refreshing really. Great post, Ken.
R
spinesnaper
In reflecting on those pictures of Jud’s bloody skins, and recalling my own bloody shins when I finished bushwacking the approach into the right fork, I think I have an idea for a new canyoneering product. I was inspired by a bike ride I just finished. It was cold down by the Beach in Santa Monica so I pulled out my leg warmers. If Tom is reading this, I wonder if there would be a market for a neoprene legwarmer/shin protector-6mm on the front surface and 3 mm on the back. Call them Paria Ice Breakers. A specialized item no doubt. However it might find application in those situations where you need a little amphibious lower leg protection but don’t want or need to bother with the wetsuit. Tom just supply the URL if it’s already out there.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Actually you make many very good points. It seems that a lot more knowledge has been acquired and shared about winter canyoning in only the last few years. Who knows if that event is as rare as has been speculated? Was it a dam downriver? No one I know, knows for sure. I don’t think they gave much thought to temperatures, due to never knowing of the area holding any water of any depth. Sometimes it matters, sometimes not.
The New Year’s Black Hole this year? With no sun, cold air sinking to the canyon bottom and temps near 20 on the rim, I am guessing it was low teens in the canyon and it just didn’t matter that much. We thought it would have a much bigger impact. Just had to splash icy rock with water and use the freshly splashed spot for holds fast, before it froze up again.
As you said eloquently,”Part of the joy of reading Jud’s story is knowing that the strange and wonderful terrain you are traveling through has a malevolent side. ” I would add that we are such small fragile bags of water and truly….the wilderness doesn’t care in the least, about us! Kinda refreshing really. Great post, Ken. > R
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Ram
Did not mean to imply they did anything wrong. Obviously if you drop into a freezing canyon you are going to need be prepared for ice. It would be interesting to know if the forecasted temperatures where warmer say in Marble canyon than what they actually found inside Paria Canyon. They trashed their shins, managed to self-rescue and did not die from hypothermia-good stuff. Clearly they knew what they were doing but found unanticipated conditions. My point is that I would rather read their epic than experience it. I am hiking in April and not January for a reason.
Part of the joy of reading Jud’s story is knowing that the strange and wonderful terrain you are traveling through has a malevolent side. It is hard not to think about that hiking through 12 miles of narrows. Its that truth that made watching 127 Hours so much fun: There but for the grace of G-d. One simply needs to be prudent and recognize that conditions can definitely lick you. Still trying to picture 42,000 cfs in Paria.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Sounds like a blast. Look forward to hearing about it. Jud’s ice dam story is just amazing. It shows that sometimes the world just goes upside down.
While this area he encountered this is essentially an ankle high wade most of the time, some unknown factors created that dam downcanyon. This is what Jud pictured. Water flowed toward the dam, then overnight it froze. The same thing happened day after day. So as these guys broke through an ice layer and maybe a few below, no one knows how many of these layers of “water on ice” there were. It could have been pretty deep. Might even have proven quite dangerous if one went thru enough layers. I also appreciate the thinking of going around the corner and up Paria, thinking they get above this ice floe quickly. I have wondered whether they were pretty close to clearing the ice when they turned around and went back through it all again. “The devil you know” type of thing, I guess.
I really don’t see that they made any mistakes really. It was known only as a shallow wader among us till they found these conditions. Fun, this discovery game, even if we pay in skin sometimes 😉 Final though. Image the scene when the ice dam finally broke!
> Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Ram
The one lesson I have learned very well (the hard way) is that accurate beta is critical as in life support. I don’t drop into anything without studying the doppler radar (iphone app) and knowing the national weather forecast (laptop). Those canyons will be there long after the current weather front has passed through. Funky weather is great for taking landscape photos not canyoneering. Having the right gear is also essential. Breaking through sheets of ice while wearing a 7 mm wetsuit is fun. Trying to do the same in running shorts is stupidity. I would much rather read about epics than survive them. I am taking my leica M9 through Buckskin and will be trying my hand at high dynamic range photography. I will share my worthwhile pics on Bogley.com.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Now if you were going dead of winter, I would have pointed you toward this trip report sooner! 😉 As is, this classic is worth a re read occasionally and a pleasure for those who haven’t read it before.
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=buckskin
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
> From: spinesnaper To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
> ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
RAM
Actually you make many very good points. It seems that a lot more knowledge has been acquired and shared about winter canyoning in only the last few years. Who knows if that event is as rare as has been speculated? Was it a dam downriver? No one I know, knows for sure. I don’t think they gave much thought to temperatures, due to never knowing of the area holding any water of any depth. Sometimes it matters, sometimes not.
The New Year’s Black Hole this year? With no sun, cold air sinking to the canyon bottom and temps near 20 on the rim, I am guessing it was low teens in the canyon and it just didn’t matter that much. We thought it would have a much bigger impact. Just had to splash icy rock with water and use the freshly splashed spot for holds fast, before it froze up again.
As you said eloquently,”Part of the joy of reading Jud’s story is knowing that the strange and wonderful terrain you are traveling through has a malevolent side. ” I would add that we are such small fragile bags of water and truly….the wilderness doesn’t care in the least, about us! Kinda refreshing really. Great post, Ken. R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Ram
Did not mean to imply they did anything wrong. Obviously if you drop into a freezing canyon you are going to need be prepared for ice. It would be interesting to know if the forecasted temperatures where warmer say in Marble canyon than what they actually found inside Paria Canyon. They trashed their shins, managed to self-rescue and did not die from hypothermia-good stuff. Clearly they knew what they were doing but found unanticipated conditions. My point is that I would rather read their epic than experience it. I am hiking in April and not January for a reason.
Part of the joy of reading Jud’s story is knowing that the strange and wonderful terrain you are traveling through has a malevolent side. It is hard not to think about that hiking through 12 miles of narrows. Its that truth that made watching 127 Hours so much fun: There but for the grace of G-d. One simply needs to be prudent and recognize that conditions can definitely lick you. Still trying to picture 42,000 cfs in Paria.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Sounds like a blast. Look forward to hearing about it. Jud’s ice dam story is just amazing. It shows that sometimes the world just goes upside down.
While this area he encountered this is essentially an ankle high wade most of the time, some unknown factors created that dam downcanyon. This is what Jud pictured. Water flowed toward the dam, then overnight it froze. The same thing happened day after day. So as these guys broke through an ice layer and maybe a few below, no one knows how many of these layers of “water on ice” there were. It could have been pretty deep. Might even have proven quite dangerous if one went thru enough layers. I also appreciate the thinking of going around the corner and up Paria, thinking they get above this ice floe quickly. I have wondered whether they were pretty close to clearing the ice when they turned around and went back through it all again. “The devil you know” type of thing, I guess.
I really don’t see that they made any mistakes really. It was known only as a shallow wader among us till they found these conditions. Fun, this discovery game, even if we pay in skin sometimes 😉 Final though. Image the scene when the ice dam finally broke!
Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Ram
The one lesson I have learned very well (the hard way) is that accurate beta is critical as in life support. I don’t drop into anything without studying the doppler radar (iphone app) and knowing the national weather forecast (laptop). Those canyons will be there long after the current weather front has passed through. Funky weather is great for taking landscape photos not canyoneering. Having the right gear is also essential. Breaking through sheets of ice while wearing a 7 mm wetsuit is fun. Trying to do the same in running shorts is stupidity. I would much rather read about epics than survive them. I am taking my leica M9 through Buckskin and will be trying my hand at high dynamic range photography. I will share my worthwhile pics on Bogley.com.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Now if you were going dead of winter, I would have pointed you toward this trip report sooner! 😉 As is, this classic is worth a re read occasionally and a pleasure for those who haven’t read it before.
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=buckskin
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
> Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
From: spinesnaper Subject: [from Canyons Group] Changes in Paria/Buckskin Gulch?
To: Yahoo Canyons Group
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
>
spinesnaper
Ram
Did not mean to imply they did anything wrong. Obviously if you drop into a freezing canyon you are going to need be prepared for ice. It would be interesting to know if the forecasted temperatures where warmer say in Marble canyon than what they actually found inside Paria Canyon. They trashed their shins, managed to self-rescue and did not die from hypothermia-good stuff. Clearly they knew what they were doing but found unanticipated conditions. My point is that I would rather read their epic than experience it. I am hiking in April and not January for a reason.
Part of the joy of reading Jud’s story is knowing that the strange and wonderful terrain you are traveling through has a malevolent side. It is hard not to think about that hiking through 12 miles of narrows. Its that truth that made watching 127 Hours so much fun: There but for the grace of G-d. One simply needs to be prudent and recognize that conditions can definitely lick you. Still trying to picture 42,000 cfs in Paria.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Sounds like a blast. Look forward to hearing about it. Jud’s ice dam story is just amazing. It shows that sometimes the world just goes upside down.
While this area he encountered this is essentially an ankle high wade most of the time, some unknown factors created that dam downcanyon. This is what Jud pictured. Water flowed toward the dam, then overnight it froze. The same thing happened day after day. So as these guys broke through an ice layer and maybe a few below, no one knows how many of these layers of “water on ice” there were. It could have been pretty deep. Might even have proven quite dangerous if one went thru enough layers. I also appreciate the thinking of going around the corner and up Paria, thinking they get above this ice floe quickly. I have wondered whether they were pretty close to clearing the ice when they turned around and went back through it all again. “The devil you know” type of thing, I guess.
I really don’t see that they made any mistakes really. It was known only as a shallow wader among us till they found these conditions. Fun, this discovery game, even if we pay in skin sometimes 😉 Final though. Image the scene when the ice dam finally broke! > Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Ram
The one lesson I have learned very well (the hard way) is that accurate beta is critical as in life support. I don’t drop into anything without studying the doppler radar (iphone app) and knowing the national weather forecast (laptop). Those canyons will be there long after the current weather front has passed through. Funky weather is great for taking landscape photos not canyoneering. Having the right gear is also essential. Breaking through sheets of ice while wearing a 7 mm wetsuit is fun. Trying to do the same in running shorts is stupidity. I would much rather read about epics than survive them. I am taking my leica M9 through Buckskin and will be trying my hand at high dynamic range photography. I will share my worthwhile pics on Bogley.com.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Now if you were going dead of winter, I would have pointed you toward this trip report sooner! 😉 As is, this classic is worth a re read occasionally and a pleasure for those who haven’t read it before.
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=buckskin
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
> From: spinesnaper To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
> ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
>
RAM
Sounds like a blast. Look forward to hearing about it. Jud’s ice dam story is just amazing. It shows that sometimes the world just goes upside down.
While this area he encountered this is essentially an ankle high wade most of the time, some unknown factors created that dam downcanyon. This is what Jud pictured. Water flowed toward the dam, then overnight it froze. The same thing happened day after day. So as these guys broke through an ice layer and maybe a few below, no one knows how many of these layers of “water on ice” there were. It could have been pretty deep. Might even have proven quite dangerous if one went thru enough layers. I also appreciate the thinking of going around the corner and up Paria, thinking they get above this ice floe quickly. I have wondered whether they were pretty close to clearing the ice when they turned around and went back through it all again. “The devil you know” type of thing, I guess.
I really don’t see that they made any mistakes really. It was known only as a shallow wader among us till they found these conditions. Fun, this discovery game, even if we pay in skin sometimes 😉 Final though. Image the scene when the ice dam finally broke! Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Ram
The one lesson I have learned very well (the hard way) is that accurate beta is critical as in life support. I don’t drop into anything without studying the doppler radar (iphone app) and knowing the national weather forecast (laptop). Those canyons will be there long after the current weather front has passed through. Funky weather is great for taking landscape photos not canyoneering. Having the right gear is also essential. Breaking through sheets of ice while wearing a 7 mm wetsuit is fun. Trying to do the same in running shorts is stupidity. I would much rather read about epics than survive them. I am taking my leica M9 through Buckskin and will be trying my hand at high dynamic range photography. I will share my worthwhile pics on Bogley.com.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Now if you were going dead of winter, I would have pointed you toward this trip report sooner! 😉 As is, this classic is worth a re read occasionally and a pleasure for those who haven’t read it before.
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=buckskin
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
> Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
From: spinesnaper Subject: [from Canyons Group] Changes in Paria/Buckskin Gulch?
To: Yahoo Canyons Group
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
spinesnaper
Ram
The one lesson I have learned very well (the hard way) is that accurate beta is critical as in life support. I don’t drop into anything without studying the doppler radar (iphone app) and knowing the national weather forecast (laptop). Those canyons will be there long after the current weather front has passed through. Funky weather is great for taking landscape photos not canyoneering. Having the right gear is also essential. Breaking through sheets of ice while wearing a 7 mm wetsuit is fun. Trying to do the same in running shorts is stupidity. I would much rather read about epics than survive them. I am taking my leica M9 through Buckskin and will be trying my hand at high dynamic range photography. I will share my worthwhile pics on Bogley.com.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Now if you were going dead of winter, I would have pointed you toward this trip report sooner! 😉 As is, this classic is worth a re read occasionally and a pleasure for those who haven’t read it before.
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=buckskin
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
> From: spinesnaper To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
> ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
RAM
Now if you were going dead of winter, I would have pointed you toward this trip report sooner! 😉 As is, this classic is worth a re read occasionally and a pleasure for those who haven’t read it before.
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=buckskin
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
> Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
From: spinesnaper Subject: [from Canyons Group] Changes in Paria/Buckskin Gulch?
To: Yahoo Canyons Group
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
>
spinesnaper
Thanks for the hydrology lesson. So long as the water comes out at the same springs, life is good along the Paria. It is funny how often those 100 year floods come up.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Scott Betz wrote:
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8
Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper wrote:
> From: spinesnaper To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
> ÂÂ
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
>
Scott Betz
I don’t think that the landscape could be changed much by flooding. its an endless slot with little elevation drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5gBq41gZQ8 Scott
— On Tue, 1/25/11, spinesnaper kenstein@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
From: spinesnaper kenstein@ix.netcom.com> Subject: [from Canyons Group] Changes in Paria/Buckskin Gulch? To: Yahoo Canyons Group Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:35 PM
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Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
ryanej1
Also came across a paper on the paleoflood hydrology for the river. Using silt-line evidence, they determined the largest historical flood is about 42,000 cfs. That one probably rearranged a few log jams!
Erik
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “ryanej1” wrote:
Ever notice how often the news leads us to believe there was a “100 year flood”? One would start to think they happen every other year. A quick review of the literature for the Paria at Lees suggests that the mean annual flood between 1923 and 1996 was 88 m^3/s. Interesting, that’s about 3,000 cfs. In the reference I found, the 100 yr flow at for the Paria at Lees is about 11,000 cfs and the last time the river was there was 1958.
Erik
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
The landscape is created by floods. While a big flood changes it in detail, it does not change it in nature. It is much the same as it ever was.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
ryanej1
Ever notice how often the news leads us to believe there was a “100 year flood”? One would start to think they happen every other year. A quick review of the literature for the Paria at Lees suggests that the mean annual flood between 1923 and 1996 was 88 m^3/s. Interesting, that’s about 3,000 cfs. In the reference I found, the 100 yr flow at for the Paria at Lees is about 11,000 cfs and the last time the river was there was 1958.
Erik
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
The landscape is created by floods. While a big flood changes it in detail, it does not change it in nature. It is much the same as it ever was.
Tom
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
>
RAM
Agreed. Use your memory, if you have been before, to marvel at the nuance of change, while smiling at how little it matters. A log jam here, a changed channel there. A swimmer here, where one wasn’t before. A stroll where a swimmer was before. A driftwood pile on a bank. And the sand sifts down relentlessly, mixed with the water, blunting all the extremes of the event. As it has done so many times before. Enjoy the rediscovery!
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
The landscape is created by floods. While a big flood changes it in detail, it does not change it in nature. It is much the same as it ever was.
Tom
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken
>
TomJones
The landscape is created by floods. While a big flood changes it in detail, it does not change it in nature. It is much the same as it ever was.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “spinesnaper” wrote:
Planning to do Wire Pass to Lee’s Ferry the first weekend in April. The BLM indicates that the canyon sustained 50 and 100 year flooding in the fourth quarter of 2010. To put it in perspective, currently the Paria River at Lee’s Ferry is flowing a 14 cubic feet per second. However, In October the flow peaked at over 3000 cubic feet per second and again in December it peaked at over 1000 cubic feet per second. It is hard to image this much water in Paria Canyon or for that matter in Buckskin Gulch. I am guessing this has changed the landscape. The BLM site vaguely indicates that the water may have affected some of the camp sites. Wondering if anyone has any more information on this situation or is planning to do this trip before April?
Thanks
Ken >