Hi, After reading Rich’s well put “We can’t we all get along” post, I tarted reaching for my wallet. Then my eye caught the half page Boulder newspaper article about a canyoneering slideshow put on by Charly Oliver, an ACA board member, according to the article.
Do we need to publicize canyoneering? The desert is so fragile. The population of potential canyoneers is everyone from hikers & bikers to rock climbers and cavers. The # of climbers over the last 2 decades has bloomed. Same will/is happen/ing w/ canyoneers. There are a lot more climbing routes than canyons and the climbing areas are packed. Sometimes people are standing in line waiting for a route. This is happening on easy routes and also hard routes, even in the mountains. Will this happen in canyons? Sure, why not? There’s already guidebooks out, databases can be paid for and the info discreetly passed around or the database can just be hacked. No problem. If it’s on the Net, it can be hacked. Canyons don’t have gates like caves. (don’t get me going on that. I’ve done a Lot of “independent” caving too. There’s lots of caves in the Flattops w/o gates)
Imagine the impact of this huge population descending on the Colorado Plateau. The people camping and tramping around will trash the environment.
What can we do? I don’t know but I DO KNOW THAT ACCELERATING THE CANYONEERING POPULATION VIA PUBLICITY WILL NOT HELP.
Maybe I’m selfish. I don’t want to see my days driving down a rutted dirt road at 10mph w/ a friend after a good desert tower climb sipping tequila, listening to C&W music on my way to a campsite near the next days great canyoneering adventure end at a BLM permit station to stand in line for a canyoneering permit or find a a couple of groups of city folk blasting rap music and having no sense of wilderness in line for the next day’s canyon.
If you can understand the above sentence we are brothers!
adios, steve
rcwild@wildernessmail.net
There are guidebook authors out there who feel that they are helping to protect canyons by writing about them. I don’t personally agree with this philosophy as it relates to disseminating information about specific canyons. Disseminating information about canyoneering in general is an entirely different matter. The ACA does not intend to promote canyoneering. It intends to promote SAFE canyoneering. The info booklet that we printed does not encourage every bozo and bumbly out there to run out and buy some gear and a guidebook and head to the Colorado Plateau. It is targeted at people who already have an interest in canyoneering and urges them to consider issues of safety and ethics that may not have occurred to them.
We also want to promote the acquisition of skills that will allow people to descend other than typical Colorado Plateau canyons. As canyoneering grows, we better open up more geography or the pressure on the Colorado Plateau will become unbearable. With the appropriate skill set, you will find some amazing opportunities throughout the entire western U.S. and in several states in the east/southeast.
The seed for the ACA was planted back in 1995, but all we did is talk about it for four years. Just didn’t seem very urgent. We finally took action following the accident in Interlaken as a REACTION to the media’s thirst for information. As canyoneering becomes more popular, the media will cover it even more. And the more they cover it, the more popular it will get. Should we sit around doing nothing, watching the sport grow without any public education? Or should we be PROACTIVE now and do whatever we can to promote safety and ethics?
If we do nothing and the number of accidents, searches and rescues increases, what actions will land managers take? How will we REACT then? How effective will it be?
Rich
s_mestdagh@yahoo.com
— In canyons@y…, dallin@o… wrote: rock climbers and cavers. The # of climbers over the last 2 decades
has bloomed. Same will/is happen/ing w/ canyoneers. There are a lot
True, canyoneering is gaining popularity. But it will never be as > popular as climbing. Climbing is much more accessable.
climbing is more accessible due to it’s location to population centers but canyoneering is more accessible to the masses due to the skill and fitness level involved and less equipment required. Easy canyons need only a pair of hiking shoes. Easy climbs need rope, harness, hardware etc. This is why I think the canyons will be overrun. Koen mentioned that in the central Pryenees 180,000 people go thru the canyons in a year. >
> Mike > dallin@o…
steve
dallin@on-line.com
Geez… talk about arousing passions! What a debate!
First, a point or two about Brian’s message… just about every outdoor activity organization has corporate sponsors in the industry. Just look on the Amer. Alpine Club’s site, Colo Mountain Club, etc etc… people like Petzl, REI, Galyans, mom and pop guide service, etc. contribute to these groups. Why should the ACA be any different?
But I do agree with you about the board of directors. I have no problem with the folks on it now, but I would love to see someone added who is not affiliated with the outdoor industry.
> Do we need to publicize canyoneering? The desert is so fragile. The
The desert is fragile. Remember, only a small percentage of “canyoneerable” canyons is in the desert.
> rock climbers and cavers. The # of climbers over the last 2 decades > has bloomed. Same will/is happen/ing w/ canyoneers. There are a lot
True, canyoneering is gaining popularity. But it will never be as popular as climbing. Climbing is much more accessable.
> more climbing routes than canyons and the climbing areas are packed. > Sometimes people are standing in line waiting for a route. This is > happening on easy routes and also hard routes, even in the mountains.
True. Boulder canyon and Eldo are packed (I’m assuming you’re in the Boulder area). These crags are mostly accessable via short hikes, if not roadside to begin with. And they aren’t the only crags in the area. I can name of dozens of interesting quality crags within an hour of Boulder. Including bolted sport routes, on some of them. On most of them, I’ve yet to see another soul. On some, you have to be willing to hike a bit, perhaps a mile or two.
We all start canyoneering somewhere. And now that I’ve started, I have no intention of locking out others who want to try it. They have as much a right to be there as I do.
> Imagine the impact of this huge population descending on the Colorado > Plateau. The people camping and tramping around will trash the > environment.
Yup. Agreed.
But why does everyone think some huge baby-boom like mass of people will descend on canyoneering like flies to horse puckey? Sure, it will gain in popularity, but why do we think it will be so popular that people will be wedged wall to wall in every canyon at every given time? Heck, I’ve climbed walk-up 14ers in Colorado on Saturday mornings in the summer and had the summits to myself.
Yeah, maybe accessable areas like Pine Creek. But there are *plenty* of canyons with “riff raff barriers” – long hikes in, technical terrain, whatever. If you want the solitude, you’ll always be able to find it, and probably some high quality secret spots along the way. And unspoiled countryside, to boot.
> What can we do? I don’t know but I DO KNOW THAT ACCELERATING THE > CANYONEERING POPULATION VIA PUBLICITY WILL NOT HELP.
Sure it will. If you publicize in a responsible way that promotes a leave-no-trace, or some-such-similar ethic.
Look at Colo’s 14ers. Some have mazes of hiker trails across the tundra. Highly destructive. Only recently have guidebook authors and groups like the CMC advocated building, maintaining and publishing a single trail, to avoid the rampant trampling.
Do we want the same with canyons? People will come if you publicize or not. Do you want publicize an enviro-friendly canyoneering ethic now, or wait until the damage is done and play clean-up… and re-education? Plus, when land managers notice the damage… yup, reg-u-lation city.
> Maybe I’m selfish. I don’t want to see my days driving down a rutted
I don’t think you’re selfish at all. I have no problem with people not publicizing their secret locals, or not wanting to see their special areas trashed. I can easily sympathize. It sucks seeing special places “discovered”.
I think that if, as a canyoneering community, we show those scary land managers that we can conduct ourselves responsibly, and in an environmentally-friendly fashion, you won’t see closures, regs, and lines of BLM permit booths waiting to take your money. But we have to get the word out to do it. I have no problem with that.
Mike dallin@on-line.com
beadysee@freewebcity.com
— In canyons@y…, s_mestdagh@y… wrote: > Hi, > After reading Rich’s well put “We can’t we all get along” post, I > tarted reaching for my wallet. Then my eye caught the half page > Boulder newspaper article about a canyoneering slideshow put on by > Charly Oliver, an ACA board member, according to the article.
Do we need to publicize canyoneering? > If you can understand the above sentence we are brothers! > adios, > steve
Welcome, brother!
Its ok to not get along. Its ok to express a difference of opinions.
Yep, you want dues paying members, you need to advertise. Conflict of interest? Here we go again…
Brian in SLC