for those of us who just can’t seem to get to the ACA courses and so forth, is there, somewhere on the web, a simple (or complex) primer on the dos and don’t of floating disconnects?
I’ve done it – and probably not correctly, but I lived to post this question.
My current notion is to block the rope at the rapide, go down single- strand and leave the rope short by a couple of feet – so its an auto- disconnect (ker-splash).
Last man pulls the rope. This would be for raps 65 ft or less. On taller raps its too hard to judge the rope touch-down.
tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rob Heineman” wrote:
I apologize in advance for the following:
> I’m so confused. Are strokers the same as wankers?
Rob,
In order to avoid a complex floating disconnect it is vital to master the skill of “tossing”. If you toss correctly, you don’t have to stroke so much, and thus you are less of a wanker.
tom (w)
bruce silliman
Let’s see, I think it will take about four Heinekens to figure out what you just said.
bruce from bryce
To: canyons@yahoogroups.comFrom: heineman@alum.mit.eduDate: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:10:44 +0000Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Floating disconect – how to ? Question from Oakland, CA
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “beadysee” wrote:>save valuable time by stroking towards the > shore,I’m so confused. Are strokers the same as wankers? But aren’t wankers people who don’t know what they’re doing? So if a stroker knows what he’s doing, can he still be a wanker? Am I a stroker or a wanker?How was that for a floating disconnect? I miss you wankers. Rob
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Rob Heineman
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “beadysee” wrote: > save valuable time by stroking towards the > shore,
I’m so confused. Are strokers the same as wankers? But aren’t wankers people who don’t know what they’re doing? So if a stroker knows what he’s doing, can he still be a wanker? Am I a stroker or a wanker?
How was that for a floating disconnect? I miss you wankers.
Rob
A.J.
I agree with Dave and Tom. If you do the pack method, just make sure it’s down. The other downside is unless your drop is a free- hang; you will be doing some damage to your pack as it goes down and then is pulled back up. Maybe not much, but just setting the rope length too long; having a person rap down, and then having them help resetting the length will (usually) do less damage and will take less time…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “davewyo1” wrote:
Be sure your pack doesn’t sit on a ledge(near the bottom) and give > the illusion of being down. Possibly by making sure the pack gets > wet if the conditions are such…
Dave
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Tom Jones” wrote:
If it was important to set the length, and you were perhaps solo,
then that would be a good solution. Otherwise, I think there was > an
easier one in there somewhere.
T
jiveassmother
Another technique that I don’t use much but could be another tool in the tool belt is to extend out your rappel device on a leash so you can hold it in front of your face out of the water and watch while you disconnect.
beadysee
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “kiwi_outdoors” wrote: > Now, how about this other way to set rope length for an auto disconnect > (single strand)
tie pack on rope > lower rope till apparent pack weight changes dramatically – best if > pack has one or more dry kegs in it or a big dry bag > mark rope position, subtract 2-3 ft > pull rope up and remove pack > redeploy rope as rappel line
If you were solo, I almost wouldn’t worry about getting that distance sussed out. But if you felt like you had to, you could rig the rope through the anchor, toss down what you can see might be enough rope, then toss the other side of the rope (hopefully in a floating bag). Go on rappel, and, near the bottom, if you come up short, then just brake with one hand on the rope that is short, and deploy with the other. As long as the rope pull is smooth through the anchor, this works pretty well.
The Euro’s have a cool technique I’ve seen for setting the rope distance (I HATE being lowered connected by a munter/mule that you disconnect when you hit the pool!). They deploy the rope to a point where they can see it, then, the partner puts them on belay (ready to lower). They go on rappel, and, use hand and/or whistle signals to start and stop the rope feed from the belayer. If using a figure eight belaying directly off an anchor, then, its easy to tie this off for everyone else to rappel from and still have a quick, easy to deploy contigencty anchor.
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
davewyo1
Be sure your pack doesn’t sit on a ledge(near the bottom) and give the illusion of being down. Possibly by making sure the pack gets wet if the conditions are such…
Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Tom Jones” wrote:
If it was important to set the length, and you were perhaps solo, > then that would be a good solution. Otherwise, I think there was an > easier one in there somewhere.
T
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “kiwi_outdoors” expectations – no
magic solutions exist. In my upcoming instance the flow is > probably
quite low.
Now, how about this other way to set rope length for an auto > disconnect
(single strand)
tie pack on rope
lower rope till apparent pack weight changes dramatically – best > if
pack has one or more dry kegs in it or a big dry bag
mark rope position, subtract 2-3 ft
pull rope up and remove pack
redeploy rope as rappel line
>
Tom Jones
If it was important to set the length, and you were perhaps solo, then that would be a good solution. Otherwise, I think there was an easier one in there somewhere.
T
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “kiwi_outdoors” wrote:
Tom – thanks for the prompt reply. It met my general expectations – no > magic solutions exist. In my upcoming instance the flow is probably > quite low.
Now, how about this other way to set rope length for an auto disconnect > (single strand)
tie pack on rope > lower rope till apparent pack weight changes dramatically – best if > pack has one or more dry kegs in it or a big dry bag > mark rope position, subtract 2-3 ft > pull rope up and remove pack > redeploy rope as rappel line >
kiwi_outdoors
Tom – thanks for the prompt reply. It met my general expectations – no magic solutions exist. In my upcoming instance the flow is probably quite low.
Now, how about this other way to set rope length for an auto disconnect (single strand)
tie pack on rope lower rope till apparent pack weight changes dramatically – best if pack has one or more dry kegs in it or a big dry bag mark rope position, subtract 2-3 ft pull rope up and remove pack redeploy rope as rappel line
beadysee
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Tom Jones” wrote: > I’m sure there are other options. BDC will suggest just toss the > whole rope in the pool, then jump after it…
Nope. I usually eyeball the drop, estimate the distance, deploy nearly the exact amount of rope, which I toss down and it usually just barely grazes the surface of the water. Then I toss the rest of the rope down in an Imlay floating rope bag, so, I have only deployed the minimum amount of rope needed to do a double rope rappel (assuming no flow). Then I rap double strand into the pool, and, instead of disconnecting, save valuable time by stroking towards the shore, the one end coming through my rappel device upon touching the water, the other end still in the rappel device but now being pulled through the rappel anchor as I swim towards the next drop, or, the hike out of the pool.
No need to do a floating disconnect, unless you’re not pulling the rope. Then, you just flip over onto your back and, uhh, go off rappel whilst treading water.
Do folks really pay you to learn this stuff, or, do it for them?
Wow. Be like taking candy from babies…
Ha ha.
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
Tom Jones
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “kiwi_outdoors” wrote:
for those of us who just can’t seem to get to the ACA courses and > so forth, is there, somewhere on the web, a simple (or complex) > primer on the dos and don’t of floating disconnects?
I’ve done it – and probably not correctly, but I lived to post > this question.
My current notion is to block the rope at the rapide, go down single- > strand and leave the rope short by a couple of feet – so its an > auto-disconnect (ker-splash).
Last man pulls the rope. This would be for raps 65 ft or less. On > taller raps its too hard to judge the rope touch-down. > OKAY – I’ll bite ——
First off, nomenclature:
A. Floating Disconnect: when the rappeller ends up in a deep pool (overhead) and wishes to disconnect their rappel from the rope, while floating in the pool.
B. Setting the Rope Length: setting the length of the rope to just above the pool, so that the rappeller does not have to do a floating disconnect, but can just rappel off the end of the rope and swim away.
Second off, it depends:
1. where the bottom of the rap is not very far, and in sight, sometimes the rope length can be set from above, visually. Usually ends up with the rope a little too long, but the two-foot tail can be easily pulled through the rap device before swiming away.
2. CAN do an actual floating disconnect, especially where current is not a big concern. Floating Disconnect: when entering the water, rappel fast and penetrate the water as deeply as possible, usually in an upright position. Then float on your back with your rappel device as high as possible. Using static ropes, this should place zero tension on the rope coming to your rappel device: if not, pull through some rope so your rap device is not under tension. Disconnect your rappel device, being careful not to drop anything. Swim away. (Assists the rigger in setting the length for subsequent rappers).
3. CAN do a dynamic (contingency) anchor. Set rope length plenty long (or not, see #5 and #6), and rig as a contingency anchor (an anchor rigging that quickly and easily converts to a lowering system). When the rapper gets to the water, the rigger releases the anchor so the rapper can swim away mostly unimpeded by the rope. Rapper swims to a comfortable stance, and de-rigs. (Assists the rigger in setting the length for subsequent rappers).
4. Setting the length for subsequent rappers: using hand or whistle signals, the rigger pulls up the rope until the rope is set at a good length. Usually a foot or two above the pool (with static ropes) works well. If the pool is deep, the entry clean and the players keen, the rope end can be set 5 – 20 feet above the pool surface for “more fun”.
5. Set Length by Lowering a Rapper: set the rope deliberately short. Rig anchor in contingency rigging. 1st rapper rappels to a point at which the bottom can be seen, AND communication with the top is still good. Rapper stops, and is lowered until the rope length is set. Contingency Anchor is re-locked, rapper continues and off the end into the pool.
6. Set Length by Lowering a Non-Rapper: tie victim to end of rope using a munter-mule or other releasable hitch. Lower victim. Victim (ideally) choses when to release munter-mule (and drop into the pool). Rigger secures contingency anchor at point suggested by victim.
Of note, those using Autoblocs will usually find it hard to rap off the end of the rope – as the Autobloc tends to nudge the sheath toward the end, which forms a bulb which the Autobloc sticks on.
In some situations, the last rapper can remove the bloc or contingency rig, and rig double strand. With the rope end set two feet above the pool, rap down and off the one end, and swim away, pulling the rope with them. Can work slick, can work poorly.
I’m sure there are other options. BDC will suggest just toss the whole rope in the pool, then jump after it…
T