FWIW
I prefer the Princeton Tech headlamps that use 4 AA’s. A bit bulky tis true. Did Kolob without it in a dry bag. Did Imlay without it in a dry bag. Did Mystery without it in a dry bag. Never had a problem. I find the claim that it is water proof pretty reasonable after all these experiences. Though the 2000′ claim seems pretty big. Eats batteries like candy with the halogen bulb. Seems like I get about 2-3 hours. With the incandescent bulb I can get about 6 hours.
One occasion, The cap on the battery housing got cracked. Might have been from a pack toss that bounced or the like, anyway, water got in and corroded the contacts The bulb and other circuitry worked fine (I swapped it into another headlamp to check). I emailed Princeton Tech and had a new one in 3 days, no charge, no questions asked. IMO great customer service.
Best part is PT headlamps are 75% the price of Petzl’s.
MS
gajslk
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Tom Jones” wrote: > Yes and No.
Always.
Going from bright to none is not a characteristic of led lamps, it > is a characteristic of a broken lamp.
True if it just goes off instantly. Going from full bright to dark in say a minute or so is characteristic of some converter designs.
These lamps usually use converters designed for cell phone backlights since they’re so cheap and cost is so important in the consumer market. Go the cheapest route, and you don’t get any warning. Spend a little more and you can. It all depends on the designer and the chip he uses.
Still a big improvement over the old resistor ballast design – a properly sized resistor wastes too much energy.
Designing a good, cheap LED lamp can be very challenging if you stray beyond the cookbook designs given in the controller data sheets. I know someone who’s trying to design one that’s useable for general- purpose caving and he’s having a very hard time making it cheap enough to be profitable.
Gordon “happy to be constructive again”
Tom Jones
Yes and No.
The great advantage of LEDs is their greatly reduced power consumption and therefore long life. LED lamps have matured, and it is pretty easy to properly engineer the lamp, so that the batteries, controlling resistor and led itself all work together well.
Battery life on the Moonlight is something like 180 hours. I think the great thing about LED headlamps is that the user no longer has to manage their headlamp usage. Read in the car? no problem. All night hike? No problem. Left in the pack for a year? No problem.
Going from bright to none is not a characteristic of led lamps, it is a characteristic of a broken lamp. Rumor has it Princeton Tec headlamps are not well-engineered, and have a tendency to fail. And the switches suck. I have no experience with them.
The original BD Moonlights had an engineering problem. The main wire was to short, so when you stretched it to put it on a helmet, it pulled the contact out. Very unfortunate, eh Ray? Now fixed.
If you put a voltage or current regulating chip in there, you get advantages and disadvantages. A properly designed chip will give you plenty of warning that it is running out of juice – flashing, waving hands, pinching – stuff like that.
Non-regulated LED lamps will start bright and then slowly dim. Replace batteries when you feel like it.
Nice to have one non-LED headlamp along for routefinding.
Tom (formerly employed by BD, now with very mixed loyalties)
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “gajslk” wrote: > — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “JUDSON EADES” wrote:
… they go from working fine to no light without warning
This is a “problem” that arose when LED headlight makers solved a > couple of more serious problems – those being badly declining light > as the batteries voltage declines, and thermal runaway causing the > LEDs to experience drastically reduced life. These two problems are > severe enough that I waited for the the second generation LED > headlamps to come out before bothering to buy one. If you care, I > can go into gory detail, but basically LEDs and bulbs are very > different critters and are not interchangeable.
ANY LED headlamp worth a hoot will have light output go to zero > almost instantly when the batteries die. Always carry a spare set of > batteries unless you know that yours are fresh.
Gordon
Bo Beck
I’ve put aprox. 2 hours on the Xenon and at least 10 hours on the LED’s of my MYO 3. The Halogen is noticeably dimmer and the LED’s seem to be of similar magnitude as when I loaded the batteries for the first time. I am sure that since I use both modes I will be inclined to swap batteries before I see a reduction in magnitude of the LED’s. If you are looking to use strictly LED’s I can see where unregulated in the long term may be of concern. I like my halogen to be bright so battery swaps don’t present a problem for me. Bo —– Original Message —– From: Kris Nosack kn@xmission.com> To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] ~Gear – Headlamps
Good point, Gordon. The datasheet for the Petzl Myo line of headlamps > notes that the Myo 3 (3 LEDs) is unregulated (light gets dimmer as > the batteries drain) while the Myo 5 is regulated (keeps the light output > up until the battery can’t supply enough juice). Nice graphs too. I was > intrigued by the note that the Myo 5 goes into “extreme power saving” mode > when nearing the end of the batteries capacity thus giving you at least a > little light near the end instead of no light. Good idea, wonder how well > it works? Them Myo’s is purdy lookin!
– Kris Nosack
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, gajslk wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “JUDSON EADES” wrote:
> … they go from working fine to no light without warning
This is a “problem” that arose when LED headlight makers solved a
couple of more serious problems – those being badly declining light
as the batteries voltage declines, and thermal runaway causing the
LEDs to experience drastically reduced life. These two problems are
severe enough that I waited for the the second generation LED
headlamps to come out before bothering to buy one. If you care, I
can go into gory detail, but basically LEDs and bulbs are very
different critters and are not interchangeable.
ANY LED headlamp worth a hoot will have light output go to zero
almost instantly when the batteries die. Always carry a spare set of
batteries unless you know that yours are fresh.
Gordon
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
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Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
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When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
> To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My > Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save > Changes".
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages.
> Your use of Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Kris Nosack
Good point, Gordon. The datasheet for the Petzl Myo line of headlamps notes that the Myo 3 (3 LEDs) is unregulated (light gets dimmer as the batteries drain) while the Myo 5 is regulated (keeps the light output up until the battery can’t supply enough juice). Nice graphs too. I was intrigued by the note that the Myo 5 goes into “extreme power saving” mode when nearing the end of the batteries capacity thus giving you at least a little light near the end instead of no light. Good idea, wonder how well it works? Them Myo’s is purdy lookin!
– Kris Nosack
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, gajslk wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “JUDSON EADES” wrote:
… they go from working fine to no light without warning
This is a “problem” that arose when LED headlight makers solved a > couple of more serious problems – those being badly declining light > as the batteries voltage declines, and thermal runaway causing the > LEDs to experience drastically reduced life. These two problems are > severe enough that I waited for the the second generation LED > headlamps to come out before bothering to buy one. If you care, I > can go into gory detail, but basically LEDs and bulbs are very > different critters and are not interchangeable.
ANY LED headlamp worth a hoot will have light output go to zero > almost instantly when the batteries die. Always carry a spare set of > batteries unless you know that yours are fresh.
Gordon
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
> To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My > Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save > Changes".
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages.
> Your use of Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
gajslk
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “JUDSON EADES” wrote: > … they go from working fine to no light without warning
This is a “problem” that arose when LED headlight makers solved a couple of more serious problems – those being badly declining light as the batteries voltage declines, and thermal runaway causing the LEDs to experience drastically reduced life. These two problems are severe enough that I waited for the the second generation LED headlamps to come out before bothering to buy one. If you care, I can go into gory detail, but basically LEDs and bulbs are very different critters and are not interchangeable.
ANY LED headlamp worth a hoot will have light output go to zero almost instantly when the batteries die. Always carry a spare set of batteries unless you know that yours are fresh.
Gordon
Aaron Smith
tikka plus? more info, I didnt see it on petzl.com
Aaron
—-Original Message Follows—- From: hmoon@petzl.com Reply-To: Yahoo Canyons Group To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: [from Canyons Group] ~Gear – Headlamps Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:49:32 -0600
In general, it’s true that PT lights are less expensive than Petzl’s, but given the wide price variance on the market, it’s incorrect to make blanket statements such as “PT headlamps are 75% the price of Petzl’s.”
Here’s some examples (non-sale prices – just now found on internet)
(REI prices) Aurora (29.95) vs. Tikka Plus (34.95) PT is ~85% of Petzl here Quest (17.95) vs. Micro (19.95) PT is ~90% of Petzl here
(Karst Sports prices): Aurora (29.99) vs. Tikka Plus (32.95) PT is ~91% of Petzl here Quest (18.60) vs. Micro (15.95) PT is ~116% of Petzl here
Notes:
Quest is “waterproof” (meaning water not supposed to get inside the case when closed); Micro is water resistant (meaning works fine when wet – except when immersed in highly mineralized water like hot springs) and has a focusable beam
Aurora has 3 LEDs, is “waterproof” (meaning water not supposed to get inside the case when closed), and has 3 power settings and 2 blinking modes; Tikka Plus has 4 LEDs, is water resistant (meaning works fine when wet – except when immersed in highly mineralized water like hot springs) and has 3 power settings and 1 blinking modes.
Hank “works for Petzl” Moon
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JUDSON EADES
Last year I reviewed several headlamps. In my opinion the Princeton Tecs were some of the worst I reviewed. The battery life is terrible, they go from working fine to no light without warning. The battery housing sucks. One of the models plastic snaps broke, and good luck trying to change the batteries when your hands are freezing. Just my .02
Jud
>From: hmoon@petzl.comDate: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:49:32 -0600 >
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hmoon@petzl.com
>I’ve even used them in hot springs and don’t recall having a problem >thereafter.
Hot springs aren’t really an issue unless you leave the light on underwater for awhile – then the batteries drain very rapidly.
hank
James Schnepel
Anyone using Pelican lights? Their latest headlamp seemed a little bulky if compared to Tikka/Aurora styles, but, their smaller handhelds work great and can be put in an (old fashioned) strap that goes around your head/helmet. The l.e.d.’s work great and their traditional bulb is quite bright…though batteries for the latter need to be replaced regularly as they tend to die quickly when at the end of their lifespan.
Admittedly, I’m under the influence of SWAG (I used to work in the outdoor industry and Pelican was always quite generous), but, many of their lights are rated for diving and explosives work. I’ve found them to be very durable and very reliable. I’ve even used them in hot springs and don’t recall having a problem thereafter. Many don’t have a push button switch (which seems inherently prone to water issues), rather you screw the lens tighter to engage power.
jim
— hmoon@petzl.com wrote: > In general, it’s true that PT lights are less > expensive than Petzl’s, but > given the wide price variance on the market, it’s > incorrect to make blanket > statements such as “PT headlamps are 75% the price > of Petzl’s.”
Here’s some examples (non-sale prices – just now > found on internet)
(REI prices) > Aurora (29.95) vs. Tikka Plus (34.95) PT is ~85% of > Petzl here > Quest (17.95) vs. Micro (19.95) PT is ~90% of Petzl > here
(Karst Sports prices): > Aurora (29.99) vs. Tikka Plus (32.95) PT is ~91% of > Petzl here > Quest (18.60) vs. Micro (15.95) PT is ~116% of > Petzl here
Notes:
Quest is “waterproof” (meaning water not supposed to > get inside the case > when closed); Micro is water resistant (meaning > works fine when wet – > except when immersed in highly mineralized water > like hot springs) and has > a focusable beam
Aurora has 3 LEDs, is “waterproof” (meaning water > not supposed to get > inside the case when closed), and has 3 power > settings and 2 blinking > modes; Tikka Plus has 4 LEDs, is water resistant > (meaning works fine when > wet – except when immersed in highly mineralized > water like hot springs) > and has 3 power settings and 1 blinking modes.
Hank “works for Petzl” Moon
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hmoon@petzl.com
In general, it’s true that PT lights are less expensive than Petzl’s, but given the wide price variance on the market, it’s incorrect to make blanket statements such as “PT headlamps are 75% the price of Petzl’s.”
Here’s some examples (non-sale prices – just now found on internet)
(REI prices) Aurora (29.95) vs. Tikka Plus (34.95) PT is ~85% of Petzl here Quest (17.95) vs. Micro (19.95) PT is ~90% of Petzl here
(Karst Sports prices): Aurora (29.99) vs. Tikka Plus (32.95) PT is ~91% of Petzl here Quest (18.60) vs. Micro (15.95) PT is ~116% of Petzl here
Notes:
Quest is “waterproof” (meaning water not supposed to get inside the case when closed); Micro is water resistant (meaning works fine when wet – except when immersed in highly mineralized water like hot springs) and has a focusable beam
Aurora has 3 LEDs, is “waterproof” (meaning water not supposed to get inside the case when closed), and has 3 power settings and 2 blinking modes; Tikka Plus has 4 LEDs, is water resistant (meaning works fine when wet – except when immersed in highly mineralized water like hot springs) and has 3 power settings and 1 blinking modes.
Hank “works for Petzl” Moon