— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bigtoeage21”
I wasn’t buying this and I still believe that ATV’s can cause way more damage than hikers. In fact I took several pictures of ATV damage I saw in an area I had never been, where some friends were sharing a new canyon they had explored (thanx folks). This and the next photo http://picasaweb.google.com/aramv14/November2007/photo#5131671773920195442 But………We did witness one of the worst examples of hiker induced damage I have ever seen. Brian, Brandt, Tom and I were pioneering (for us anyway) a new route off of Elephant Butte in Arches, coming off the east side toward the Windows parking areas. We were on top of the final rap, a 2 stage 150 foot affair when we saw 2 kids, a 1/4 mile away sprinting through the desert, all over crypto and all. We soon saw them flush a hare. They continued to chase the poor wabbitt. Soon they were joined by 6 other kids under the age of 12 years old, chasing this hare everywhere screaming at the top of their lungs tromping all over the soil. We screamed down from our perch but were ignored. Nice parenting. R
adkramoo
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan Lee” wrote: > I guess for me… I was measuring based on visual impact to the eye > of the beholder, rather than on the duration of the impact. I guess > the sand pile must have been pretty nasty before because it still > looks ugly to me as recent as this summer when I did Spry and > noticed that a few people still seem to be using it… Perhaps a few > people with rakes could speed the “healing” process…
I believe your right that a few people still periodically use the slope. It was horrific at one time, but every winter it seemed to repair itself and most of the scar noted annually, was fresh. New angles of repose? Doesn’t take much with that slope for damage or repair. A concern I have is that canyoneering is becoming more of a year around affair. I hope it gets some rest. Also, it should be easy enough to track when damage occurs. Permits recorded etc. Perhaps the tunnel rangers could account for its condition daily? R
Ryan Lee
I guess for me… I was measuring based on visual impact to the eye of the beholder, rather than on the duration of the impact. I guess the sand pile must have been pretty nasty before because it still looks ugly to me as recent as this summer when I did Spry and noticed that a few people still seem to be using it… Perhaps a few people with rakes could speed the “healing” process…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Tom Jones” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan Lee” wrote:
It’s all a bit relative isn’t Ram… For example, the sand pile trail
(s) coming down from Spry is pretty dang ugly when viewed from the
road… even after years of getting people to stay in the boulder
field… for me that is one instance where hikers are on par with
ATV type damage.
> Au contrair friend Ryan. By next spring, the former trails will be > pretty much unnoticeable. They are mostly healed at this point.
This was a single, especially visually sensitive case, that healed > pretty close to 100% in just 3 years of non-use. Park service posted > signs, people stayed off it. problem solved.
Not many of the ATV scars in the desert backcountry heal just by non- > use in that short a timeperiod.
Tom >
Tom Jones
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan Lee” wrote:
It’s all a bit relative isn’t Ram… For example, the sand pile trail > (s) coming down from Spry is pretty dang ugly when viewed from the > road… even after years of getting people to stay in the boulder > field… for me that is one instance where hikers are on par with > ATV type damage. > Au contrair friend Ryan. By next spring, the former trails will be pretty much unnoticeable. They are mostly healed at this point.
This was a single, especially visually sensitive case, that healed pretty close to 100% in just 3 years of non-use. Park service posted signs, people stayed off it. problem solved.
Not many of the ATV scars in the desert backcountry heal just by non- use in that short a timeperiod.
Tom
Ryan Lee
It’s all a bit relative isn’t Ram… For example, the sand pile trail (s) coming down from Spry is pretty dang ugly when viewed from the road… even after years of getting people to stay in the boulder field… for me that is one instance where hikers are on par with ATV type damage.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “adkramoo” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bigtoeage21” wrote: > People who hike > on land can abuse it just as much as someone who > rides ATVs.
> I wasn’t buying this and I still believe that ATV’s can cause way more > damage than hikers. In fact I took several pictures of ATV damage I > saw in an area I had never been, where some friends were sharing a new > canyon they had explored (thanx folks). > This and the next photo > http://picasaweb.google.com/aramv14/November2007/photo#51316717739201 95442 > But………We did witness one of the worst examples of hiker induced > damage I have ever seen. Brian, Brandt, Tom and I were pioneering (for > us anyway) a new route off of Elephant Butte in Arches, coming off the > east side toward the Windows parking areas. We were on top of the > final rap, a 2 stage 150 foot affair when we saw 2 kids, a 1/4 mile > away sprinting through the desert, all over crypto and all. We soon > saw them flush a hare. They continued to chase the poor wabbitt. Soon > they were joined by 6 other kids under the age of 12 years old, > chasing this hare everywhere screaming at the top of their lungs > tromping all over the soil. We screamed down from our perch but were > ignored. Nice parenting. > R >