Thanks for the rope offer Brian, a two by two group in Heaps sounds intriguing.
Now a little info, if your dry bag leaks it is nolonger called a dry bag, it just becomes a big sack to carry your rope. hahaha
Shane
—– Original Message —– From: beadysee@freewebcity.com> To:
Mel and I used mine, which, you are (instead of yer…hee hee) more > than welcome to borrow. Is a 3/8 or 7/16 bluewater static II and > weighs pert nur 80 pounds when the dry bag leaks… Since you’ll > only use it once, should be small chance of it gettin’ ruined….
I’m thinkin’ a two by two group of four would be perfecto. That way, > if the groups got split up (by maybe plumbing another route into the > crossroads, fer example), no biggie but if they magically found > themselves together, wouldn’t have to do that last drop on a single > cord…(could wait at the tree above the last drop to leave space for > the first two to rig the rap then get gone…
So…sounds like I’ve just invited m’self. Tom? Put ‘er on the > calender. But…maybe mid June or so…?? We’ll see. Long time and > a ron day view from then ’till now. Also, hard to tell with the > weather…
Brian in SLC
— In canyons@y…, “Shane B.”
I don’t have a 300′ rope, but for a Heaps trip I will buy one. Is > 6mm
paracord OK with you? hehehe I have been wondering where I would > find
someone foolish enough to join me in Heaps.
Did you say you had already been through Heaps or do we need > to “Broad Band”
for Beta? hahaha
If you really want to do it let’s talk on side band edg78@c…
Shane
—– Original Message —–
From:
Subject: Re: [canyons group] larry canyon
> Shane,
Maybe we can hook up sometime around the first of June for a > Heaps trip??
Do
> you have a 300 foot rope?
Mel
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Benny
Canyoneering gear + Lightweight down sleeping bag + Extra bars/ dried fruit, etc. for breakfast Dry bags for everything including extra ropes and extra canyoneering gear.
With lots of climbing, lifting, lowering, pothole escaping, you’ll be hating life if you have an extra heavy pack or one that doesn’t drain well.
Rough it a little, then enjoy the luxuries all the more when you get back to civ.
We packed in footlong Subway sandwiches for dinner, since we wouldn’t be doing too much technical stuff before sleeping, and were glad we did. This way, no cooking gear was required.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “scott c.” wrote:
Thanks for the tips Neil. Heaps is on my radar for next year. What do you and others suggest for equipment for the Heaps run? I tend to go way to heavy – like when we did Kolob. I carried my lightweight griddle and we had pancakes and bacon for breakfast. It really hit the spot but maybe I could get away with some powdered gunk for one day rather than lugging in the good stuff. I would like to see yours and others list.
Thanks,
Scott Card
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
scott c.
Thanks for the tips Neil. Heaps is on my radar for next year. What do you and others suggest for equipment for the Heaps run? I tend to go way to heavy – like when we did Kolob. I carried my lightweight griddle and we had pancakes and bacon for breakfast. It really hit the spot but maybe I could get away with some powdered gunk for one day rather than lugging in the good stuff. I would like to see yours and others list.
Thanks,
Scott Card
neil wilkinson
One other little note. The technical aspects of Heaps is one thing. I think something that can surprise people about canyons like Heaps is how physically demanding it can be. Going down Kolob and hiking out the MIA, if you find that trip to be no problem you’re most likely physically ready. (If at the end of that day you wish for your death, run a few more laps prior to Heaps) Just realize Heaps will usually demand a higher physical toll than than Kolob + MIA.
Most of the parties I have heard about getting out in the middle of the night, etc packed way too much. Knowing what to take and what not to take on trips like these is a little bit of an art you kinda learn with experience. I would really encourage you to focus on some trips like Kolob prior to gunning for Heaps. That said, Heaps w/a little flow is my personal favorite Zion canyon, followed closely by Kolob running about 8cfs …. then Pine Creek running @ 30cfs, but that is another story. Anyhow, keep Heaps on your radar cause it’s worth the trip, just make sure you’re ready so you can enjoy it as much as you should.
I hope any of that blabbering helped.
Have fun, be safe Neil
Benny benjaminroberts@hotmail.com> wrote: Yeah, no offense, but i think someone would be crazy to volunteer to go down Heaps with 3 guys they’ve never met before and have not much idea of their skills except that they can rappel and swim (as demonstrated in the basic Zion canyons you’ve done). Everyone has to be up to par on the required skills, Heaps isn’t exactly a place you can “take people” through.
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Benny
Yeah, no offense, but i think someone would be crazy to volunteer to go down Heaps with 3 guys they’ve never met before and have not much idea of their skills except that they can rappel and swim (as demonstrated in the basic Zion canyons you’ve done). Everyone has to be up to par on the required skills, Heaps isn’t exactly a place you can “take people” through.
I would suggest looking for partner(s) to do easier canyons with and then when you have a partner that feels comfortable with accompanying you down heaps and feels everyones abilities are up to par, then go for it. Its a neat place, but also very serious.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rick thompson” wrote:
its a pretty big jump to go from pine creek and mystery to heaps. > would suggest you fill out your resume a little more, a 300 foot rap, > like englestead, and some more commiting cold water, like kolob, would > help you to be better prepared for the big dogs.
rick >
rick thompson
its a pretty big jump to go from pine creek and mystery to heaps. would suggest you fill out your resume a little more, a 300 foot rap, like englestead, and some more commiting cold water, like kolob, would help you to be better prepared for the big dogs.
rick
adkramoo
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “orsdoc” wrote:
Interesting SAR
It seems that one could finish Heaps if one was carrying adequate > rope to pull the lines in Behunin. Dealing with a lot of unexpected > cold water would not be pleasant, nor sleeping out unexpectantly, > nor the lack of food.
I keep coming back to the lack of calories and the cold water too. How they didn’t get hypothermia, I can’t figure out!?!
But if one had enough rope to do Behunin and > not just pull cord then the two 50 meter ropes could be tied > together for that last rap in Heaps and the knot passed or do the > rap-lower like Steve did to Ram.
Perhaps they didn’t have anyone to go last who knew how to pass the knot?
> I was sorry to hear about Patty’s accident. It is very sobering. > My sympathies to her family and friends
Yes, very sad. It only takes a moment. A lot of people we don’t know are hurting badly tonight. I met her just once at a YoFest, but we chatted a lot about the FreezeFest. She was obsessed with coming to one…but never made it out. Kinda reminds us to “go and do it now.” instead of putting it off till another day, that might not come. I think I’ll go schedule another trip right now.
I was going to write something about poison ivy but it has been > said. Those who think that they are immune may be fooling > themselves. Unless you have a problem with your immune system > eventually you will react.
Thanx a freakin lot! I must have had 100’s of exposures, maybe more and NOW I will probably start reacting…and I WILL blame you and Rich. Folks, my shoulder was hurting on the last trip and the Doc looked at me and said “Your about the age….” Thanx again! Well its getting better so PPPWWWEEEIE ON YOUEE, Doc”. 😉
I get itchy just looking at the stuff. > The medical literature says that if you take it off with alcohol > within 10 minutes of exposure you can avoid the reaction. I went > equipped with alcohol swabs, soap, etc. Ram says just wash yourself > off in the water. I think that guy is nuts.
Yupper
Doesn’t he know this > oil can stick for up to 5 years and it doesn’t come off without a > detergent.
Noper
My soap was buried too deep in the pack but I did > cleanse my skin with alcohol swabs after washing as instructed by > Ram. I also worked very hard to avoid exposure and while Ram was > forging ahead I would be gingerly dancing around trying to avoid the > plant. My hat is off to Ram because I made it through several > canyons with him without a rash.
Lucky
Everything he said about poison > ivy doesn’t jive with my medical literature but I don’t care because > I’m not itching.
Who ya gonna believe?? The Docta?…… Me too. Guess your not going now, are you Scott?
Ram (The guy with the sumtin wrong with his immune system)
davewyo1
Okay,That was hilarious! I remember you,trying to avoid the Ivy in Baker,and I know how alarming the Ivy can be.A neighbor burned a whole pile when I was a kid and nearly died from inhaling the smoke. Ram and I subscribe to a strict rule of; “I DON’T believe in Ivy”when encountering the herb.It’s only because we have never been seriously infected. So far,it’s been working. If you blow on by,rather than wallowing in the stuff,you stand a better chance. BTW:Sure,we know that oil doesn’t come off in water,but it’s comforting to maintain some illusions when it comes to infections. Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “orsdoc” wrote: > I was going to write something about poison ivy but it has been > said. Those who think that they are immune may be fooling > themselves. Unless you have a problem with your immune system > eventually you will react. I get itchy just looking at the stuff. > The medical literature says that if you take it off with alcohol > within 10 minutes of exposure you can avoid the reaction. I went > equipped with alcohol swabs, soap, etc. Ram says just wash yourself > off in the water. I think that guy is nuts. Doesn’t he know this > oil can stick for up to 5 years and it doesn’t come off without a > detergent. My soap was buried too deep in the pack but I did > cleanse my skin with alcohol swabs after washing as instructed by > Ram. I also worked very hard to avoid exposure and while Ram was > forging ahead I would be gingerly dancing around trying to avoid the > plant. My hat is off to Ram because I made it through several > canyons with him without a rash. Everything he said about poison > ivy doesn’t jive with my medical literature but I don’t care because > I’m not itching.
Mark >
orsdoc
Interesting SAR
It seems that one could finish Heaps if one was carrying adequate rope to pull the lines in Behunin. Dealing with a lot of unexpected cold water would not be pleasant, nor sleeping out unexpectantly, nor the lack of food. But if one had enough rope to do Behunin and not just pull cord then the two 50 meter ropes could be tied together for that last rap in Heaps and the knot passed or do the rap-lower like Steve did to Ram.
Can you imagine how it must have felt to think you were in Behunin and then recognize you were really in its big brother on steroids, Heaps.
I’m glad all ended well
I was sorry to hear about Patty’s accident. It is very sobering. My sympathies to her family and friends
I was going to write something about poison ivy but it has been said. Those who think that they are immune may be fooling themselves. Unless you have a problem with your immune system eventually you will react. I get itchy just looking at the stuff. The medical literature says that if you take it off with alcohol within 10 minutes of exposure you can avoid the reaction. I went equipped with alcohol swabs, soap, etc. Ram says just wash yourself off in the water. I think that guy is nuts. Doesn’t he know this oil can stick for up to 5 years and it doesn’t come off without a detergent. My soap was buried too deep in the pack but I did cleanse my skin with alcohol swabs after washing as instructed by Ram. I also worked very hard to avoid exposure and while Ram was forging ahead I would be gingerly dancing around trying to avoid the plant. My hat is off to Ram because I made it through several canyons with him without a rash. Everything he said about poison ivy doesn’t jive with my medical literature but I don’t care because I’m not itching.
Mark
Bo Beck
Gotta run to my 3rd job in a min, but did heaps one year with maybe 2cfs, and it was the best trip out of 12 I’ve done (except some burnt hands)! Dont know the cfs now but I think that over 2 cfs I would have forgotten about the beauty and fun and focused more on “why the h#@l I’m in here! To each his own, but if you did Kolob in 6?cfs, I can tell you that Heaps will be a totally different experience at 0cfs or 25cfs. B
me you
Dang. Thinking your partner has slipped off of the rope and splattered to the ground below, has got to be one of the most dreadful feelings in the world. Imagine how much relief your friends felt when they discovered it wasn’t you!!!
Thanks for all the info guys. Thanks for your offer of sending the Heaps TR Brian, but I’ve got a few (enough) already. What do you mean by a “rope gun” though? I don’t know what a rope gun is. Is it one of those “rope deployment toys” used by tree people?
Changing the subject (to a non canyon related incident) that you may find funny, but I didn’t. I had taken my girls out (& a little friend of my oldest daughter) to Death Valley in Feb. Sure, we got a little wild & spontaneous the entire trip (it was all girls). I let them take turns driving the BIG Durango on dirt roads, and it was great fun for them all. Over and over again during the course of our trip, they wanted to drive. OK. No Problem. Except the fact that none of them drove well. Marilyn (the 14 year old friend) couldn’t seem to stop. She’d put her foot on the brake and nothing happened. Over and over again, she nearly crashed the truck. I don’t know why I kept letting her drive. On the way home, we took a detour of 20 miles to the Alabama Hills over near the base of Mount Whitney. There’s a network of dirt roads criss crossing, and looping around these awesome rock formations. Very other-worldly. We climbed around the rocks a bit, and I let them drive a bunch. Fun’s over, we’re going to lunch, and then heading home. “Wow, there’s a neat rock guys, I’d like to take your picture” I say. So I pull over, we jump out, cross the highway to the rock and I snap off some photo’s. I snap of photo’s one by one as they run back to the truck; first Marilyn runs by ‘snap, then Sarah runs by ‘snap, la-de-da-de-da…waiting , waiting ,waiting for Racheal. Finally Rachael runs by ‘snap. What a great trip this has been. What wonderful children! I’m so happy right now. Holy CRAP my mind screams, as I get ready to cross the highway with Rachael. The truck which is 2O ft down the road starts up and pulls away from the curb. OMG! Marilyn is driving! I have never felt such a sinking dreadful feeling since I watched my puppy get ran over as a kid. I start screaming and waving my arms and running after them. She doesn’t stop! She doesn’t know how to stop! Finally after driving at least 100 ft or more she pulls over. I vowed NEVER EVER to leave my keys in the car when Marilyn is around. Thank goodness they didn’t crash.They of course, got in a HEAP of trouble.
~R
oldgator22000 ddpring@aol.com> wrote: — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “beadysee” wrote: ….. Made a loud enough boom > that my partner was sure I’d come off the end of the rope. Yikes!
Brian in SLC
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oldgator22000
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “beadysee” wrote: ….. Made a loud enough boom > that my partner was sure I’d come off the end of the rope. Yikes!
Brian in SLC
Yikes is right, my wallet is hurting just from thinking about how much “malted beverages (or can you say some nice and aged Single Malt ~Lagavulin)” I would have to purchase to help my partner cut me some slack after that…….
If I ever have to cut/toss my pack away I’ll be trying to let him know before (if I hadn’t read about this I would have have just tossed away!!!)
Dan
beadysee
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Shane Burrows” wrote: > Second guy is sitting up in the bird perch, which you can’t see anything > worthwhile from……….hears the extremely loud thud……. and is sure > his partner has just pancaked…….. I was told an anxious few minutes > passed until communication was established……..
Sheeze…I did a similar thing to a partner in Jacob Canyon. Decided to skip a rap station (towards the bottom) which consisted of a couple of tied off pitons on a shallow ledge ’cause the drop didn’t look that far. Told partner I wasn’t sure the ropes reached but that I was going to go down and check it out. Got to the end of the ropes and swung into a 20 foot down climb that looked kinda loose and spicy, so, I ejected my pack. Made a loud enough boom that my partner was sure I’d come off the end of the rope. Yikes!
Brian in SLC
Shane Burrows
>>So, suffice to say, don’t pack toss the big drop and be super careful about dislodging any rocks enroute to the final rappel sequence.
nsstrauss
I cracked open my college textbook and calculated that, assuming no air resistance, it would take the pack 5.3 seconds to hit the pool. You’d have to hoist the pack off the cliff at 5.1 mph. 5 mph is the speed of a fairly slow jogger. I’ll bet that most people could throw a 35 lb pack faster than a jogger.
I’m a nerd, I know, but someone had to do it eventually.
Nate
— In canyons@y…, “Shane B.” wrote:
>I was impressed that they tossed their gear into the upper pool from 450 > feet up. I would be worried about taking out a spectator or missing the > pool-that would take care of a pack. horizontally away from the rappel stance and not a very good perch to be > tossing stuff from. Someone had a great arm to toss a 30 to 40 pound pack > 40′ away from the cliff.
Shane B.
>>I was impressed that they tossed their gear into the upper pool from 450 feet up. I would be worried about taking out a spectator or missing the pool-that would take care of a pack.
orsdoc
Tom,
That made interesting reading. I had read the other two but I had never read the 1982 trip report. I think that I would have difficulty recognizing the lower narrows section from their reports. Maybe it just goes to show how the nature of canyons can change with time, water, earthquake, land slides, etc. We may never know what they saw. Could the Devil’s Pit been a tree wedged in the canyon and covered with debris. There could have been a rock slide or something that was subsequently cleared. It sure would be nice to have one of these early canyoneers show us his pics from 20 years ago and tell us their stories. If you run into one of them I’ll volunteer a home to meet.
I think that the 1982 group felt that others had climbed out early but used those bolts to exit. Thus theirs was the first successful descent. The problem with first descents is you never really know who did it last week. I was impressed that they tossed their gear into the upper pool from 450 feet up. I would be worried about taking out a spectator or missing the pool—that would take care of a pack.
Mark
rosenma@qwest.net
Todd, Sorry I’m not much of a caver and my wife already thinks that I have too many hobbies.
Mark
— In canyons@y…, “Sherry & Todd” wrote: > Mark,
are you a caver by any chance???
Todd > —–
Sherry & Todd
Mark,
are you a caver by any chance???
Todd —– Original Message —– From: rosenma@qwest.net> To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 10:27 PM Subject: [canyons group] Heaps
I want to thank all those who gave me information and advice on > Heaps. The beta was very helpful and we had a great trip. It is one > great canyon but not one to be taken lightly.
Mark Rosen
> Sponsored by the American Canyoneering Association > http://www.canyoneering.net
> Getting too much email from the Canyons Group? > Don’t unsubscribe; change your email options.
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
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rosenma@qwest.net
I want to thank all those who gave me information and advice on Heaps. The beta was very helpful and we had a great trip. It is one great canyon but not one to be taken lightly.
Mark Rosen