I’ve used all of the mentioned knots in many different situations. My favorite is the Euro Death Knot because it always scares a new partner and its the easiest to pull through a mess of flakes cracks etc. Rich you seem to know a lot about how each knot stress’s the rope. Which knot is the least stressful for the rope if you have the choice?
Ryan
Lee Etherington
Overhand, although it still scares me! Regards, Lee Etherington http://www.naturetours.com.au
brian_in_slc@my-Deja.com
No question for me…overhand knot. I’ve done a little bit of “backyard” testing on ropes of different diameters. Used an 11mm dynamic and a 7mm static. Tied the knot loosely. Left a chunk of tail. Then…load slowly, load quickly. No problemo. Easy to untie. I sometimes tie two in a row.
Sometimes I use an in line figure eight or “figure nine” (one more pass around a figure 8). Haven’t used a double fisherman’s in many years. Can’t figure why folks would still use that knot. Way too large of a bulk for pulling and hard to untie after one of us behemouths load it up in a free air rappel.
Brian in SLC
— In canyons@egroups.com, David Noble wrote: > Hello all
There has been some interesting discussion here in Australia on a > bushwalking (= hiking) newsgroup about the best knot to use to tie two > ropes together when canyoning.
I was wondering what people think on this list . Which knot for use in > canyons (ie wet ropes and static ropes). Propably the most commonly used > knot here is the double fishermans – this is easy to tie correctly, hard > to tie wrong and seems pretty reliable. However other knots may be > easier to undo and better for getting past obstacles when the rope is > pulled down.
Some other knots that were discussed incldued – the single overhand knot > (or EDK – “Euro Death Knot) – very simple, looks unsafe but is > recommened by the UIAA for joining two ropes (dry dynamic ropes?), the > Double figure of eight (according to the discussion – these last two > knots have a tendency to roll or invert under high loads) and the alpine > butterfly I think.
Rich Carlson
I don’t think there is “one” best knot for connecting ropes. The decision should be made for the specific situation.
If the rope pull will be clear and your only concern is a secure knot, I would use a figure eight bend backed up on both sides by a grapevine (half a double fisherman). This is probably the most bomber knot you can use, but it is bulky and tends to snag in cracks and behind flakes.
If I am concerned that my knot could snag when pulling, I would use the overhand bend (I think this is the one you called “Euro Death Knot”). It made me nervous the first time I used it, but it is secure if the ropes are not too different in diameter. Because both tails come out the same end of the knot it produces a smaller “package” and pulls more easily without snagging. Take care to make long tails – at least 10 inches (25 cm). It is also possible to tie a figure eight on both tails. It might make you feel more secure than an overhand, but it does create a slightly larger package.
The easiest knot to untie is a square knot backed up on both sides by a grapevine. The grapevines provide the security, but the square knot takes most of the load. When the grapevines are untied, the square knot comes apart easily. Never use a square knot without the backups. The downside is that about 50% of the ropes strength is lost in a square knot. However, if you are using a good rope, this loss is well within a safe margin.
It is very common in the U.S. for people to use a double fisherman or a figure eight bend without the grapevines. They both work, but are not really the best choices. Both can be difficult to untie after heavy loading.
Rich
Roberto C.
At 15.31 24/08/00 , David Noble wrote: >… >I was wondering what people think on this list . Which knot for use in >canyons (ie wet ropes and static ropes). Propably the most commonly used >knot here is the double fishermans – this is easy to tie correctly, hard >to tie wrong and seems pretty reliable. However other knots may be >easier to undo and better for getting past obstacles when the rope is >pulled down.
Some other knots that were discussed incldued – the single overhand knot >(or EDK – “Euro Death Knot) – very simple, looks unsafe but is >recommened by the UIAA for joining two ropes (dry dynamic ropes?), the >Double figure of eight (according to the discussion – these last two >knots have a tendency to roll or invert under high loads) and the alpine >butterfly I think. >…
Here we use the second one, pay attention to leave at least 50 cm and to stretch each of the 4 rope outgoing from the knot. In Italy the knot is known as ‘Galleggiante’ that means: Floating. Is very useful in canyoning because of its property of placing itself in the best position for slinding on the rocks when you catch back the ropes. The only negative thing is thath the 2 ropes must be of the same diameter.
Ciao
Roberto ___________________________________
Roberto Coppo                                               Via dei Giustiniani 32/10a                               16123 Genova – ITALIA                                          tel.  +39 0187 500968 cell. 0347 5038073 e-mail kopps@cicarudeclan.com ___________________________________   Cica Rude Clan – Socio Fondatore
http://www.cicarudeclan.com
David Noble
Hello all
There has been some interesting discussion here in Australia on a bushwalking (= hiking) newsgroup about the best knot to use to tie two ropes together when canyoning.
I was wondering what people think on this list . Which knot for use in canyons (ie wet ropes and static ropes). Propably the most commonly used knot here is the double fishermans – this is easy to tie correctly, hard to tie wrong and seems pretty reliable. However other knots may be easier to undo and better for getting past obstacles when the rope is pulled down.
Some other knots that were discussed incldued – the single overhand knot (or EDK – “Euro Death Knot) – very simple, looks unsafe but is recommened by the UIAA for joining two ropes (dry dynamic ropes?), the Double figure of eight (according to the discussion – these last two knots have a tendency to roll or invert under high loads) and the alpine butterfly I think.
Dave
— ————————– David Noble dnoble@ozemail.com.au http://www.ozemail.com.au/~dnoble/