Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
Matt Smith
>
Kolob and Pine Creek are not really comparable. The effects of the cold water are significantly compounded in Kolob vs. Pine Creek
FWIW.
KennethS
Thanks everyone for the practical suggestions.
We have our marching orders. Hopefully my submersion case for my S90 will arrive in time for the trip. I have a hunch that will be much more practical than bringing the leica M9.
We will see what is in the cards for August 12 on water release, weather, permits and interagency cooperation. Seems like a tall order. All of that is before setting boots in canyon.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Clint Draper wrote:
Good luck with the Kolob permit. > I went 2 weeks ago and I don’t think they meant to let our group through. I > also tried to take a group through last sat and the back country desk said > that the water district is playing games with them. Back country will only > let you go down if the flow is under 3.5 and the water district says they > are letting out over 3.5 so no permits until back country can confirm the > actual flow rate. Call the water district any time and find out there > schedual for that week. then call the back country desk and tell them what > the flow is and that you want permits. > If you cant get them go do boundary, exit MIA it is not that bad, if you go > out the narrows you will need a narrows permit not a boundary permit. > Clint Draper
Account Executive
*435-628-0350*
4679 South River Road > St. George, UT 84790 > http://www.yesco.com
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:57 PM, KennethS wrote:
> **
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the
day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water
release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My
understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District
to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F
(hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the
actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk
to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the
Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they
knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in
the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable
and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour
beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers
the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in
the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here
would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
> >
TomJones
Yes, the water is real. Just not 2000 years old, in the sense presented.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bshwakr09” wrote:
You mean that the 2000-year-old Weeping Rock Water that the shuttle bus driver told me about is real?
k
bshwakr09
You mean that the 2000-year-old Weeping Rock Water that the shuttle bus driver told me about is real?
k
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
What Tom said…It not just the additional water over the spillway. It has been well observed in Utah, the Northwest and elsewhere that water flows below the surface in flat vegetated sections and then comes pouring out, sometimes in great additional volume, once waterfalls are present. The phenomena has created some interesting descents (and escapes) in Gorge Creek in Washington, in particular. ;-O
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
… and does not measure what the flow is at the interesting part of the canyon, where da rappels are. Water comes and goes between the Dam and the Lip, so to speak.
Yes.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Tom,
Just to be clear, Kolob can be “open” when the release is less than whatever the standard is, but the “release” does not measure the actual flow into Kolob because the release does not measure whatever water is entering Kolob via the spillway… At least that was how it was explained to me by the Water District…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Just to be clear, it is the Washington County Water Conservancy District, no the County. A quasi-independent, quasi-public agency.
Not sure what the limit is, but 3.5cfs is mild conditions in Kolob. Seems like 3-5 is the normal release. I looked on the website for the Park’s limit, but they say nothing about Kolob Canyon.
The District (WCWCD) is not in the business of permitting or not permitting people to go down the canyon. The District’s policy is that no one should EVER go down the canyon because it is far too dangerous. However, their JOB is to provide accurate information about what they are releasing, not how much water is in the canyon.
The Park is in charge of issuing a permit or not. They operate by rules. The rules say they can ONLY issue a permit if they KNOW the WCWCD is releasing less than X cfs. Therefore it might be required for the aspiring Kolob-er to ask the BC Desk to call the WCWCD to ascertain that a permit-able release is occurring.
Week on, week off – Interesting!!! But if even the ON position is 3.5cfs, then KOLOB IS OPEN! Yee haw. Excellent canyon.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
>
RAM
What Tom said…It not just the additional water over the spillway. It has been well observed in Utah, the Northwest and elsewhere that water flows below the surface in flat vegetated sections and then comes pouring out, sometimes in great additional volume, once waterfalls are present. The phenomena has created some interesting descents (and escapes) in Gorge Creek in Washington, in particular. ;-O
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
… and does not measure what the flow is at the interesting part of the canyon, where da rappels are. Water comes and goes between the Dam and the Lip, so to speak.
Yes.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Tom,
Just to be clear, Kolob can be “open” when the release is less than whatever the standard is, but the “release” does not measure the actual flow into Kolob because the release does not measure whatever water is entering Kolob via the spillway… At least that was how it was explained to me by the Water District…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Just to be clear, it is the Washington County Water Conservancy District, no the County. A quasi-independent, quasi-public agency.
Not sure what the limit is, but 3.5cfs is mild conditions in Kolob. Seems like 3-5 is the normal release. I looked on the website for the Park’s limit, but they say nothing about Kolob Canyon.
The District (WCWCD) is not in the business of permitting or not permitting people to go down the canyon. The District’s policy is that no one should EVER go down the canyon because it is far too dangerous. However, their JOB is to provide accurate information about what they are releasing, not how much water is in the canyon.
The Park is in charge of issuing a permit or not. They operate by rules. The rules say they can ONLY issue a permit if they KNOW the WCWCD is releasing less than X cfs. Therefore it might be required for the aspiring Kolob-er to ask the BC Desk to call the WCWCD to ascertain that a permit-able release is occurring.
Week on, week off – Interesting!!! But if even the ON position is 3.5cfs, then KOLOB IS OPEN! Yee haw. Excellent canyon.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
TomJones
… and does not measure what the flow is at the interesting part of the canyon, where da rappels are. Water comes and goes between the Dam and the Lip, so to speak.
Yes.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
Tom,
Just to be clear, Kolob can be “open” when the release is less than whatever the standard is, but the “release” does not measure the actual flow into Kolob because the release does not measure whatever water is entering Kolob via the spillway… At least that was how it was explained to me by the Water District…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Just to be clear, it is the Washington County Water Conservancy District, no the County. A quasi-independent, quasi-public agency.
Not sure what the limit is, but 3.5cfs is mild conditions in Kolob. Seems like 3-5 is the normal release. I looked on the website for the Park’s limit, but they say nothing about Kolob Canyon.
The District (WCWCD) is not in the business of permitting or not permitting people to go down the canyon. The District’s policy is that no one should EVER go down the canyon because it is far too dangerous. However, their JOB is to provide accurate information about what they are releasing, not how much water is in the canyon.
The Park is in charge of issuing a permit or not. They operate by rules. The rules say they can ONLY issue a permit if they KNOW the WCWCD is releasing less than X cfs. Therefore it might be required for the aspiring Kolob-er to ask the BC Desk to call the WCWCD to ascertain that a permit-able release is occurring.
Week on, week off – Interesting!!! But if even the ON position is 3.5cfs, then KOLOB IS OPEN! Yee haw. Excellent canyon.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
Ryan
Tom,
Just to be clear, Kolob can be “open” when the release is less than whatever the standard is, but the “release” does not measure the actual flow into Kolob because the release does not measure whatever water is entering Kolob via the spillway… At least that was how it was explained to me by the Water District…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Just to be clear, it is the Washington County Water Conservancy District, no the County. A quasi-independent, quasi-public agency.
Not sure what the limit is, but 3.5cfs is mild conditions in Kolob. Seems like 3-5 is the normal release. I looked on the website for the Park’s limit, but they say nothing about Kolob Canyon.
The District (WCWCD) is not in the business of permitting or not permitting people to go down the canyon. The District’s policy is that no one should EVER go down the canyon because it is far too dangerous. However, their JOB is to provide accurate information about what they are releasing, not how much water is in the canyon.
The Park is in charge of issuing a permit or not. They operate by rules. The rules say they can ONLY issue a permit if they KNOW the WCWCD is releasing less than X cfs. Therefore it might be required for the aspiring Kolob-er to ask the BC Desk to call the WCWCD to ascertain that a permit-able release is occurring.
Week on, week off – Interesting!!! But if even the ON position is 3.5cfs, then KOLOB IS OPEN! Yee haw. Excellent canyon.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
>
TomJones
Just to be clear, it is the Washington County Water Conservancy District, no the County. A quasi-independent, quasi-public agency.
Not sure what the limit is, but 3.5cfs is mild conditions in Kolob. Seems like 3-5 is the normal release. I looked on the website for the Park’s limit, but they say nothing about Kolob Canyon.
The District (WCWCD) is not in the business of permitting or not permitting people to go down the canyon. The District’s policy is that no one should EVER go down the canyon because it is far too dangerous. However, their JOB is to provide accurate information about what they are releasing, not how much water is in the canyon.
The Park is in charge of issuing a permit or not. They operate by rules. The rules say they can ONLY issue a permit if they KNOW the WCWCD is releasing less than X cfs. Therefore it might be required for the aspiring Kolob-er to ask the BC Desk to call the WCWCD to ascertain that a permit-able release is occurring.
Week on, week off – Interesting!!! But if even the ON position is 3.5cfs, then KOLOB IS OPEN! Yee haw. Excellent canyon.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO… >
bollinger_joe
Seasoned Vets –
More details on us, if you are interested on hooking up with us and doing Kolob.
1. Would be delighted to meet the day prior to see if good fit 2. Am seasoned Ocean Lifeguard/EMT, both 14yr son & I very strong water – did Pine Creek in April, so know what cold,flowing water is all about. 3. 10 hours of strenuous exercise is our sick idea of a good time (son is cross country runner, I am a tri-geek)
Thanks!
Joe
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bollinger_joe” wrote:
Ken,
If you pull off the trip – can you post a report on it?
Was thinking of doing it the Weekend of August 20th (either Sat,Sun or Monday)
Specifically any keepers or real difficult spots – my Son & I are still “rope & go kiddie canyoneers” ! – have done Spry, Pine Creek, etc but not Heaps/Imlay, etc. So don’t want to tackle something over our head.
If any seasoned vets want to go – we would be delighted to hook up with you.
Thanks!
joe
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Clint Draper wrote:
Good luck with the Kolob permit.
> I went 2 weeks ago and I don’t think they meant to let our group through. I
> also tried to take a group through last sat and the back country desk said
> that the water district is playing games with them. Back country will only
> let you go down if the flow is under 3.5 and the water district says they
> are letting out over 3.5 so no permits until back country can confirm the
> actual flow rate. Call the water district any time and find out there
> schedual for that week. then call the back country desk and tell them what
> the flow is and that you want permits.
> If you cant get them go do boundary, exit MIA it is not that bad, if you go
> out the narrows you will need a narrows permit not a boundary permit.
> Clint Draper
Account Executive
*435-628-0350*
4679 South River Road
> St. George, UT 84790
> http://www.yesco.com
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:57 PM, KennethS wrote:
> **
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the
day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water
release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My
understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District
to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F
(hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the
actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk
to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the
Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they
knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in
the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable
and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour
beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers
the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in
the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here
would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
bollinger_joe
Ken,
If you pull off the trip – can you post a report on it?
Was thinking of doing it the Weekend of August 20th (either Sat,Sun or Monday)
Specifically any keepers or real difficult spots – my Son & I are still “rope & go kiddie canyoneers” ! – have done Spry, Pine Creek, etc but not Heaps/Imlay, etc. So don’t want to tackle something over our head.
If any seasoned vets want to go – we would be delighted to hook up with you.
Thanks!
joe
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Clint Draper wrote:
Good luck with the Kolob permit.
I went 2 weeks ago and I don’t think they meant to let our group through. I
also tried to take a group through last sat and the back country desk said
that the water district is playing games with them. Back country will only
let you go down if the flow is under 3.5 and the water district says they
are letting out over 3.5 so no permits until back country can confirm the
actual flow rate. Call the water district any time and find out there
schedual for that week. then call the back country desk and tell them what
the flow is and that you want permits.
If you cant get them go do boundary, exit MIA it is not that bad, if you go
out the narrows you will need a narrows permit not a boundary permit.
Clint Draper
Account Executive
*435-628-0350*
4679 South River Road
St. George, UT 84790
http://www.yesco.com
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:57 PM, KennethS wrote:
> **
> Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the
> day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water
> release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My
> understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District
> to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F
> (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the
> actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk
> to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the
> Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they
> knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in
> the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable
> and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour
> beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers
> the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in
> the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here
> would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
>
Ryan
When I called Washington County last Friday afternoon they told me they were alternating weeks of shutting flow off completely and then turning it back on. They told me last week it was shut off for the week and that they turned it back on to 3.5 cfs on Friday or Sat (can’t remember which). So maybe next week is a good shot for Kolob. I think some of the inconsistency is being driven by how much water is spilling over the resevoir. I think they are worried that they tell someone that they are releasing 3.0 and then the person fails to take into account the water that is being added by the spill way… So they are not going to let folks go down (setting the release at 3.5) unless they have it shut off completely or there is no longer water flowing over the spillway – which makes some sense if you ask me…If you have been down Kolob a bunch and have a feel for the watermarks in relationship to your trips down you would be in a good position to make a judgment call, but if it is your first time down and you have 3 cfs flowing and run-off you would not be in a great position to make a call – and no way is the county going to get involved in it…IMHO…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Clint Draper wrote:
Good luck with the Kolob permit. > I went 2 weeks ago and I don’t think they meant to let our group through. I > also tried to take a group through last sat and the back country desk said > that the water district is playing games with them. Back country will only > let you go down if the flow is under 3.5 and the water district says they > are letting out over 3.5 so no permits until back country can confirm the > actual flow rate. Call the water district any time and find out there > schedual for that week. then call the back country desk and tell them what > the flow is and that you want permits. > If you cant get them go do boundary, exit MIA it is not that bad, if you go > out the narrows you will need a narrows permit not a boundary permit. > Clint Draper
Account Executive
*435-628-0350*
4679 South River Road > St. George, UT 84790 > http://www.yesco.com
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:57 PM, KennethS wrote:
> **
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the
day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water
release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My
understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District
to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F
(hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the
actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk
to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the
Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they
knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in
the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable
and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour
beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers
the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in
the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here
would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
> >
skimn21
The backcountry office told us last weekend that they don’t issue permits if the release is more than 3cfs. Since the scheduled release was 3.5 we were denied permits and had to do boundary instead.
TJ
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
I am driving from Los Angeles so I know that I am not making it to the Kolob side on thursday. But I will file this reality for later use. Sounds like Boundry out MIA is the most realistic option. However, my trip is 11 days away so we will see what give then.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bshwakr09” wrote:
Good suggestions. It looks like our group was the only one so far this season; last week the WCWCD started releasing again. Even though the hours are inconvenient, I would go to the Kolob Entrance for a permit; they seem to be more ‘in-tune’ with Kolob Creek.
If you are wanting to going down Boundary and out Kolob but the park won’t issue you a permit because of releases, I would push the issue. There are only a few questionable spots below the MIA….2 pools of note but nothing technical or turbulent like the upper slot.
K
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Hmmm. For maximum possibility of success –
A. call on Monday, tomorrow, during bankers hours, and see what they have for a “release schedule”. I am surprised they are not releasing water now. When they say “…and anyway, only a fool would risk their life by going down that canyon, no matter how little water we are releasing” say “Thank you for being concerned about the safety of others”.
B. Call on Thursday around noon and verify they are still on that schedule. Then call the Backcountry Desk and make sure they know that the release is such that they can offer backcountry permits. Tell them you are coming in soon to pick up a permit, and YOU have called the District, and you want to make sure THEY have called the district too.
C. Go get your permit. BC Office open until 7:30 pm, I think. Don’t go in at the last minute, please.
Yes, being in The Narrows above Big Springs requires a permit. Day hike? That is a long way for one day, unless you are Kip. Overnight? Best to camp before getting to the Narrows. The current water conditions (assuming some flow) makes it a bit slower than dry conditions…
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Kip or Tom may have more in-depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past.
> R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
Clint Draper
Good luck with the Kolob permit. I went 2 weeks ago and I don’t think they meant to let our group through. I also tried to take a group through last sat and the back country desk said that the water district is playing games with them. Back country will only let you go down if the flow is under 3.5 and the water district says they are letting out over 3.5 so no permits until back country can confirm the actual flow rate. Call the water district any time and find out there schedual for that week. then call the back country desk and tell them what the flow is and that you want permits. If you cant get them go do boundary, exit MIA it is not that bad, if you go out the narrows you will need a narrows permit not a boundary permit. Clint Draper
Account Executive
*435-628-0350*
4679 South River Road St. George, UT 84790 http://www.yesco.com
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:57 PM, KennethS kenstein@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> **
> Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the > day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water > release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My > understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District > to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F > (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the > actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk > to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the > Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they > knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in > the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable > and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour > beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers > the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in > the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here > would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
KennethS
I am driving from Los Angeles so I know that I am not making it to the Kolob side on thursday. But I will file this reality for later use. Sounds like Boundry out MIA is the most realistic option. However, my trip is 11 days away so we will see what give then.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bshwakr09” wrote:
Good suggestions. It looks like our group was the only one so far this season; last week the WCWCD started releasing again. Even though the hours are inconvenient, I would go to the Kolob Entrance for a permit; they seem to be more ‘in-tune’ with Kolob Creek.
If you are wanting to going down Boundary and out Kolob but the park won’t issue you a permit because of releases, I would push the issue. There are only a few questionable spots below the MIA….2 pools of note but nothing technical or turbulent like the upper slot.
K
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Hmmm. For maximum possibility of success –
A. call on Monday, tomorrow, during bankers hours, and see what they have for a “release schedule”. I am surprised they are not releasing water now. When they say “…and anyway, only a fool would risk their life by going down that canyon, no matter how little water we are releasing” say “Thank you for being concerned about the safety of others”.
B. Call on Thursday around noon and verify they are still on that schedule. Then call the Backcountry Desk and make sure they know that the release is such that they can offer backcountry permits. Tell them you are coming in soon to pick up a permit, and YOU have called the District, and you want to make sure THEY have called the district too.
C. Go get your permit. BC Office open until 7:30 pm, I think. Don’t go in at the last minute, please.
Yes, being in The Narrows above Big Springs requires a permit. Day hike? That is a long way for one day, unless you are Kip. Overnight? Best to camp before getting to the Narrows. The current water conditions (assuming some flow) makes it a bit slower than dry conditions…
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Kip or Tom may have more in-depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past.
R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
bshwakr09
Good suggestions. It looks like our group was the only one so far this season; last week the WCWCD started releasing again. Even though the hours are inconvenient, I would go to the Kolob Entrance for a permit; they seem to be more ‘in-tune’ with Kolob Creek.
If you are wanting to going down Boundary and out Kolob but the park won’t issue you a permit because of releases, I would push the issue. There are only a few questionable spots below the MIA….2 pools of note but nothing technical or turbulent like the upper slot.
K
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Hmmm. For maximum possibility of success –
A. call on Monday, tomorrow, during bankers hours, and see what they have for a “release schedule”. I am surprised they are not releasing water now. When they say “…and anyway, only a fool would risk their life by going down that canyon, no matter how little water we are releasing” say “Thank you for being concerned about the safety of others”.
B. Call on Thursday around noon and verify they are still on that schedule. Then call the Backcountry Desk and make sure they know that the release is such that they can offer backcountry permits. Tell them you are coming in soon to pick up a permit, and YOU have called the District, and you want to make sure THEY have called the district too.
C. Go get your permit. BC Office open until 7:30 pm, I think. Don’t go in at the last minute, please.
Yes, being in The Narrows above Big Springs requires a permit. Day hike? That is a long way for one day, unless you are Kip. Overnight? Best to camp before getting to the Narrows. The current water conditions (assuming some flow) makes it a bit slower than dry conditions…
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Kip or Tom may have more in-depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past.
> R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
KennethS
Ram
Thanks for the input.
I do understand that the office on that side is less congested. I think I am stuck with the main office.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Kip or Tom may have more in depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past. > R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
KennethS
Tom
Thanks for the practical advice and, of course, thank you for being concerned about the safety of others.
If we actually do Kolob we will be exiting out MIA. The prospect of also carrying camping gear of any sort is not nearly as appealing as having dinner at the Pizza Noodle, even a late dinner.
Boundry out the narrows will let my partner try out his new 350 lumen headlight– just kidding. It’s a long way out from the bottom of Boundry. But we are tossing about this option. Caffeine, Motrin, and Tagamet is my after-lunch drug cocktail of choice for that final push. We will see if weather even makes these options remotely possible.
Ken
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Hmmm. For maximum possibility of success –
A. call on Monday, tomorrow, during bankers hours, and see what they have for a “release schedule”. I am surprised they are not releasing water now. When they say “…and anyway, only a fool would risk their life by going down that canyon, no matter how little water we are releasing” say “Thank you for being concerned about the safety of others”.
B. Call on Thursday around noon and verify they are still on that schedule. Then call the Backcountry Desk and make sure they know that the release is such that they can offer backcountry permits. Tell them you are coming in soon to pick up a permit, and YOU have called the District, and you want to make sure THEY have called the district too.
C. Go get your permit. BC Office open until 7:30 pm, I think. Don’t go in at the last minute, please.
Yes, being in The Narrows above Big Springs requires a permit. Day hike? That is a long way for one day, unless you are Kip. Overnight? Best to camp before getting to the Narrows. The current water conditions (assuming some flow) makes it a bit slower than dry conditions…
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Kip or Tom may have more in-depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past.
R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
TomJones
Hmmm. For maximum possibility of success –
A. call on Monday, tomorrow, during bankers hours, and see what they have for a “release schedule”. I am surprised they are not releasing water now. When they say “…and anyway, only a fool would risk their life by going down that canyon, no matter how little water we are releasing” say “Thank you for being concerned about the safety of others”.
B. Call on Thursday around noon and verify they are still on that schedule. Then call the Backcountry Desk and make sure they know that the release is such that they can offer backcountry permits. Tell them you are coming in soon to pick up a permit, and YOU have called the District, and you want to make sure THEY have called the district too.
C. Go get your permit. BC Office open until 7:30 pm, I think. Don’t go in at the last minute, please.
Yes, being in The Narrows above Big Springs requires a permit. Day hike? That is a long way for one day, unless you are Kip. Overnight? Best to camp before getting to the Narrows. The current water conditions (assuming some flow) makes it a bit slower than dry conditions…
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Kip or Tom may have more in-depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past. > R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken
>
RAM
Kip or Tom may have more in depth suggestions. I tend to get my Kolob permits over the years in the Kolob Finger District. Less hassle and often no lines there, at least in years past. R
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “KennethS” wrote:
Can someone explain the details of getting a Kolob permit. I understand the day before going, one has to call the Water District to learn what the water release will be: less than 3 CPF is doable and above 5 cfs is impossible. My understanding is that the backcountry desk must also call the Water District to confirm the water release schedule. The Water District Office is open M-F (hour? 9-5?). So presumably this means no Sunday Kolob permit? What are the actual mechanics? What time does one need to arrive at the Back Country Desk to make it likely that the water release schedule can be confirmed by the Ranger (i.e. Is the Water district likely to answer their phone? Do they knock off early on Fridays?) My partner and I are planning arriving late in the afternoon on Thursday August 11. Assuming that the weather is favorable and the Water District is not releasing water, is there some bewitching hour beyond which it will be impossible to get a Kolob permit (i.e no one answers the phone after 3:30PM)? We can juggle our schedule and do Spry on Friday in the hope of getting a Kolob permit for Saturday. Any practice advice here would be appreciated.
Also, if one does Boundry, is a permit need to exit through the narrows?
Thanks
Ken >