Leader Training WAS: Zion Backcountry … [snip]

I took no offense at your original post, Bo. You made a simple comment based on a personal observation. For anyone else to infer something from such an incredibly small sampling, and without looking at other factors (such as other training received by the individual, training or lack thereof of other members in the party, etc) is ridiculous.

I actually agree with your comment about over-confidence. After taking a 3-day course, people should get out and practice their skills – A LOT – in easier canyons first, then work up to intermediate, then advanced.

Personal philosophy – beginners should not go out with other beginners. They should go out with experts. When they become competent intermediates, they should start going out with other competent intermediates. When they become experts (after years of experience) they should be willing to take some beginners under their wing – just like someone did for them when they were beginners.

But that’s in an ideal world. It’s frustrating for beginners who can’t find experienced partners. That’s why the ACA started offering free training for leaders/mentors.

BTW, next training is scheduled February 9th-10th in southern California.

Saturday is a Basic Skills Workshop. Free to all ACA members. It will be taught by Canyon Leader candidates with me looking over their shoulders.

Sunday is open to Canyon Leaders who have been accepted into the leader/mentor training program.

— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Bo” wrote:
There is no way that I could conclude anything from what I’ve been > exposed to. First of all, I have no idea as to the percentage > of “Canyoneers” in Zion that are ACA trained vs. non ACA trained? I > believe that ACA training is a GREAT thing as the popularity of > the “Sport” continues to grow. Like anything…the more training and > experience one has, the less the chance of error. My only question > about the training would be if it might be prematurely instilling a > confidence level that leads to “over-confidence” thus the possibility > or should I say unnecessary risk?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “A.J.” wrote:

> Not that it supports ANY theory or can be directed in any
> direction, but with a very slow RESCUE season at Zion “TG”, the
> last three callouts I responded to in “canyon related” incidents
> ended in: one fatality and 2 carryout/rescue scenarios. Out of > the
> 3 last “Majors”, 2 of the “victims” were ACA trained and one was
> not. Now….to gain statistics from this would be unfair I
> suppose? Might have been 3 fatalities if they were not trained?

Would need to factor in how many of ALL incidents were ACA trained, > to
see if the accident rate was lower for ACA folks. Good luck with > that
study. Of course, as an experienced SAR person (as I know you are)
knows; sometimes other factors influence a situation. Such as
hypothermia slowing or blurring the thought process and causing a
mistake to be made (as it seems to be the case in one of > the “Majors”
which had a fatality…)

Just my opinion,
A.J.
>