Is there a proposed agenda for that Ron day view? A classic canyon a day? Make sense to fly into Phoenix?
BBQ every night? Malt beverage post canyon? Campin’ out under the stars or in someones garage? All you can eat Chicken Fried Steak at the Texaz Grill in Phoenix on Monday night? Free air swami belt rappel demonstrations? How ’bout a clinic on how do downclimb a 5.11 overhanging flaring slot? SDS versus Rawl hole drillin’ competition?
Hey, this is startin’ to sound like fun!
Any particulars will be appreciated!! There’s got to be some classic neat canyons in the area that would make this absolutely fantastic. “Someone” toss us a bone here!
I notice that airfare is pretty cheap from SLC to Phoenix: around 173.50 if procured in advance. Shoot, with 2 or more folks sharin’ a rental car, would be cheaper than buying that small, portable electic powered drill….
Brian in SLC
Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the canyons >group:
>Will you attend our next Canyoneering >Rendezvous, February 17-19 (Presidents’ >Day weekend) in Arizona?
> o Yes > o No
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http://www.egroups.com/polls/canyons
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Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
Will you be attending the ACA Wolf Creek / Pagosa Springs Rendezvous Aug 4/5 2001?
o Yes. Bien Sure. Oui. Bueno. o No. Nyat. Not I. Never. Not if…
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canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
Will you be attending the ACA rendezvous in Zion, August 11-12?
o YES o NO
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Ray Ford
Here’s what I would guess
At some point any canyon worth doing will be well known. The internet makes it too easy to share information. Many of the canyons we probably all agree it is ok to post information about today wouldn’t have been posted a few years ago. As more and more people learn about the “secret” spots through the Net and word of mouth, etc, they’ll become popular canyons too. It isn’t a matter of whether it is when.
So how do you deal with this? Everything’s a holding action in reality. Think of what things will be like when canyoneering is really popular.
Best in my mind is to share information freely about the known places and let it drift out more slowly in those places which haven’t yet been “discovered” by the rest.
Bottom line, if you post information on the ACA site the places will get known no matter whether you restrict you gets to see the info first or not.
Ray
Chris Raver
You have a good point. In an egroup like this it is nearly impossible understand exactly how “Technical” people are. But I don’t think that charging for this information is appropriate either. That is just like the NPS or BLM charging for access to the canyons.
Chris s. Raver Microsoft Professional Support Microsoft Certified Systems Builder
—–Original Message—– From: rcwild@wildernessmail.net [mailto:rcwild@wildernessmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:44 AM To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: Re: [canyons group] New poll for canyons
Chris Raver wrote: An alternative is to password protect some of the information in the canyons database and the only way to get access to this information is to show some level of Technical ability.
Chris,
Yeah, but … how do we determine who meets the criteria for technical ability (and ethical behavior)? This subject came up a few months ago when we first started discussing a database. Keeping the database available to members only will reduce the number of people with access, but I know some riff raff out there who will be willing to pay $45 to gain access to more canyons.
Should we have two levels of canyons in the database? One level of “sacrificial” canyons accessible to all members and another only accessible to those who have “proven” themselves (perhaps by attending a rendezvous or two)? Devise some sort of written exam? Make them take an oath?
When I share information about a secret canyon, I usually deliver it with a speach about safety, anchors, ethics, regulations, etc. I’d like to think I make good choices in which people I share info, but I don’t always know how good their choices will be. I tell two friends who each tell two friends who each tell two friends … Doubt if my speach gets repeated each time the information is passed. Next thing I know, “MY” canyon is no longer a secret and it is getting trashed.
Rich
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begin 600 winmail.dat M>)^(C8.`0:0″“$“““`!“$“0>0!@`(““Y`0“““`#H“$(@`6]N%“`!““`0““““`>“N`””`&“““#““““`1@““`XA0“ M`0““$“““““@$)$`$“`#H!@“Y`8“&4+“!,6D9U9`O8W@,`”@!R M8W!G,3(UXC(#0W1E>`5!`0,!]_*@`*D`^0’$P*`#_,`4`16/PA5![(1)0Y1 M`P$”`&-HX0K“#0=”!Q:&’X”*J5`60:`,`8P=`(AW@/&5O”U`=81@@ M’D!”==$%0$D@9`(@)P5`’X&T;FL?-F1#O0(DU96]NT1.T1U8%L`%”+6J-+“`=
rcwild@wildernessmail.net
Chris Raver wrote: An alternative is to password protect some of the information in the canyons database and the only way to get access to this information is to show some level of Technical ability.
Chris,
Yeah, but … how do we determine who meets the criteria for technical ability (and ethical behavior)? This subject came up a few months ago when we first started discussing a database. Keeping the database available to members only will reduce the number of people with access, but I know some riff raff out there who will be willing to pay $45 to gain access to more canyons.
Should we have two levels of canyons in the database? One level of “sacrificial” canyons accessible to all members and another only accessible to those who have “proven” themselves (perhaps by attending a rendezvous or two)? Devise some sort of written exam? Make them take an oath?
When I share information about a secret canyon, I usually deliver it with a speach about safety, anchors, ethics, regulations, etc. I’d like to think I make good choices in which people I share info, but I don’t always know how good their choices will be. I tell two friends who each tell two friends who each tell two friends … Doubt if my speach gets repeated each time the information is passed. Next thing I know, “MY” canyon is no longer a secret and it is getting trashed.
Rich
Chris Raver
I always like cool t-shirts. but I would like Access to the Canyons Database.
Another point on access to these canyons. Ive been canyoneering for about 7 years now but there are always new canyons that i’d like to explore but before doing any new canyon I like to gather as much information as possible first. Which is the reason I joined this group. Now, For the sake of safety I think this information should be available to experianced people and they should not have to beg or bribe other members for information. An alternative is to password protect some of the information in the canyons database and the only way to get access to this information is to show some level of Technical ability.
Chris s. Raver Microsoft Professional Support Microsoft Certified Systems Builder
—–Original Message—– From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:53 PM To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: [canyons group] New poll for canyons
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
What would you consider to bethe most important personal benefits of membership in the ACA? Please select your top two choices.
o Participation in rendezvous o Access to Canyons Database o Discounts on courses o Buyers coop for gear o Travel/rescue insurance o Member only adventures o Member only technical workshops o Cool membership card and t-shirt o Having a say in the ACA o Contributing to a worthy cause
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/polls
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begin 600 winmail.dat M>)^(@P,`0:0″“$“““`!“$“0>0!@`(““Y`0“““`#H“$(@`6]NR$24. M40,!`@!C:.$*P’-E=#(&“;#$27V,P1&$[V.Q@?#C`U$2(, M8&,`4#,+”0%D,S864`NF($DB(`=`=V%Y!”!L:1AK92`%H`;P(‘0M”‘-H:0`@ MS(Q!LWP,@)I(IAB’=I%`C`2@7,@X`AP M(‘9`$2`Q5X$A_B`0P”DS75,3X`0@)70QX;.L!]@)I(@1F_B’]@@OG’91`0` M!:#^=0(P$EH0AA%!!QRD]0_R=0)X$=T6K@)I)$L`K%;3D5′(ZX6PO&”`$ M`I0_21MI`(?M(93^A:S;Q4_!Q MV0A0′?&_:EDDH#_!.9,>-”92#>0_RQC-&$LP&MH?ML”,#O1’M#_)E(@08*@ M/Z$@ M`/H_`0““P“`!#:’)I
Tom Jones
I think that falls under “Participate in Rendezvous”.
Missed you last weekend, man.
Tom
— In canyons@y…, rcwild@w… wrote: > Richard A Shear wrote: > You might consider adding an option “The ability to dialog with other > sports enthusiasts” to your poll.
Dick,
I did consider including something like that, but since the Canyons > Group is available to anyone, member or not, it’s not an exclusive > membership benefit.
Rich
rcwild@wildernessmail.net
Richard A Shear wrote: You might consider adding an option “The ability to dialog with other sports enthusiasts” to your poll.
Dick,
I did consider including something like that, but since the Canyons Group is available to anyone, member or not, it’s not an exclusive membership benefit.
Rich
Richard A Shear
You might consider adding an option “The ability to dialog with other sports enthusiasts” to your poll. Regards —– Original Message —– From: canyons@yahoogroups.com To: canyons@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:52 PM Subject: [canyons group] New poll for canyons
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
canyons group:
What would you consider to bethe most
important personal benefits of membership
in the ACA? Please select your top two
choices.
o Participation in rendezvous
o Access to Canyons Database
o Discounts on courses
o Buyers coop for gear
o Travel/rescue insurance
o Member only adventures
o Member only technical workshops
o Cool membership card and t-shirt
o Having a say in the ACA
o Contributing to a worthy cause
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
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canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
What would you consider to bethe most important personal benefits of membership in the ACA? Please select your top two choices.
o Participation in rendezvous o Access to Canyons Database o Discounts on courses o Buyers coop for gear o Travel/rescue insurance o Member only adventures o Member only technical workshops o Cool membership card and t-shirt o Having a say in the ACA o Contributing to a worthy cause
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/polls
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Thanks!
canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
Photo Contest Finals
Please vote for one. The viewing page is at: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/group/ind ex.htm
Thanks.
o B: Italy, Rio Ciolesan o N: Canyon Silhouette o I: Pine Creek Canyon o AA: Rappel in Kolob Creek o O: Canyon Corridor o Q: Neon Canyon o SS: Rappelling into Kolob Creek o A: Italy, Rio Ciorosolin o BB: Pools in Kolob o EE: Shower in Main Mortre o W: Upper Antelope Slot o OO: Around the Next Bend
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canyonz
Rich
I think $25 is ok, even though the NZ $ is pretty weak, as you will soon find out – to your advantage! Sorry I couldn’t vote, forgot my ID and password, the lot! Too much water in my brain at the moment… Talk to you soon. when are you heading to Oz? how do we keep in touch?
julien
canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
Associate Membership benefits will probably include rendezvous participation, access to the canyons database and a say in the direction and operation of the ACA. What amount will you be willing to pay for annual dues?
o I won’t join unless it’s free. o $25 o $35 o $45 o I’d be willing to pay more.
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canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
Page 2 Photo Contest: What photos from page 2 should advance to the next round? Please vote for 6. The URL is http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/group/con test2.htm
o W: Upper Antelope o X: Frye Canyon o Y: Goose Creek o Z: Stinky Pool, Imlay o AA: Rap in Kolob o BB: Pools in Kolob o CC: My First Canyon – Claire o DD: Riolan o EE: Shower o FF: Slide in Corsica o GG: Pools in Eardley o HH: Rap in Egypt 3 o II: Rap in Pine Creek o JJ: Pothole Jumping o KK: Feminine Obstacles o LL: Wading Buckskin Gulch o MM: Wading Buckskin 2 o NN: Rap in Blue John o OO: The Next Bend o PP: Rap in Imlay o QQ: Descending Gunsight o RR: Rap in Pool, Imlay o SS: Rap into Kolob o TT: Girls First Canyon o UU: Mossy Canyon
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canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
Which photos from Page One of the photo contest should move to the final round? Please vote for 6.
o A: Rio Ciorosolin o B: Rio Ciolesan o C: Frauenbach o D: Keyhole Canyon o E: Little Wild Horse Canyon o F: Lower Black Box o G: Mystery Canyon 1 o H: Mystery Canyon 2 o I: Pine Creek Rap o J: Canyon Feeling o K: Small Ledge o L: Subway Swim o M: Subway Canyon o N: Canyon Silhouette o O: Canyon Corridor o P: Big Rappel o Q: Neon Canyon o R: Los Carrizales o S: Blub o T: Swim o U: Pays Basque o V: Utah Canyon Rappel
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Bob Bordasch
It will be interesting to see the new results. I voted for an Outright Ban on Bolting, but I am really only opposed to bolting on public property.
o Guide Training/Certification > o Develop Standards for Techniques > o Promote Canyoneering Safety > o Lobbying to Maintain Access > o Forum for Sharing Ideas > o Information Resource > o Promote Canyoneering to the Public > o Promoting Responsible Bolt Placement > o Help Develop New Areas for Canyoneering > o Land Manager Education > o Public Education > o Canyoneering Gear Reviews > o Replacement of Unsafe Bolts > o Group Benefits for Guides > o Outright Ban on Bolting > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms
canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the canyons group:
What should be the primary focus issues of the American Canyoneering Association? Please select up to five issues from the list below.
o Guide Training/Certification o Develop Standards for Techniques o Promote Canyoneering Safety o Lobbying to Maintain Access o Forum for Sharing Ideas o Information Resource o Promote Canyoneering to the Public o Promoting Responsible Bolt Placement o Help Develop New Areas for Canyoneering o Land Manager Education o Public Education o Canyoneering Gear Reviews o Replacement of Unsafe Bolts o Group Benefits for Guides o Outright Ban on Bolting
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canyons@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the canyons group:
The ACA rating/class system is located at http://www.canyoneering.net/ canyoneering_ratings.html. Do you think you will use this system as a guideline for communicating the difficulty of canyoneering routes?
o Definitely o Probably, once I get used to it o Maybe, if it catches on with others o Never, I think it stinks o Undecided
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canyons@egroups.com
Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the canyons group:
Will you attend our San Rafael Swell Canyoneering Rendezvous, Saturday and Sunday, May 5th and 6th?
o Yes o No
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