Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
Yahoo Canyons Group
Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
TomJones
Suspect numbers yes.
But Everest attracts the “bucket-list-with-money” crowd, while few without real climbing cred get past basecamp on K2.
T
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Not nearly as grim as on K2 and Annapurna. I think those are the longest odds on making it home from the summit 8000 meter peaks. Someone dig up the numbers?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, WB wrote:
Don’t know what numbers and phrasing the article is using but some prefer to use the ratio of dead to successful summiters rather than the nebulous number of “attempted”/dead. Puts it more in perspective as so many don’t make the final push to the summit. That ratio of dead/summiters is grim.
-Bill
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:02 PM, Randi wrote:
> Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000.
>
Robert Hamre
Well said RAM. As an ex adrenaline junky  (and getting older and therefore less under the spell of toxic loads of testosterone) I have had to consider that all of climbing and canyoneering and all other risk sports have, as enthusiasts, people with high needs of two things… Ego gratification and nowness awareness, and in various amounts. In large part those possessed with a more ego driven ratio are the ones at most risk for death. Not only are they encouraged to further high risk adventures (free soloing, etc) by their egos but by their respective communities, this one included. Iv’e seen young men lauded for their incredible accomplishments (like the free up climb of Sandthrax) only to see them dead in a few months or years. Last month, outside Livingston Mt. where I live, a well respected environmentalist and his wife , in spite of the highest level of avalanche warnings, extensive avalanche training and meeting 2 skiers returning from the intended area who had been buried in a slide, carried on. In 15 minutes he died in a slide. The community saluted him, what a great father he was to his two children and will ultimately name a street or something after him. It is a story repeated often here. It’s also stupid. What huge egos we must have to do risk with high calculation for failure while having loved ones. What absurd selfishness. What extraordinary ego.  Leaving young children behind is not ethically moral nor is putting that possibility in play defensible. Like to play with fire? Do it single. Can’t fill your soul or live life to the highest without big risk? Grow up.Â
I’ve found that the quest for nowness awareness is more fulfilling ingredient of all the climbing and adventuring I’ve done. When finished it seems to be the most resilient memory I take from the adventure. We don’t explore this as outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen nearly as much even though it is integral to our motivation. The problem is there are few supportive applause lines, trip reports,  book or movie deals or even promotion from our respective climbing or canyoneering communities for this valuable pursuit even though it forms a huge part of the experience. As I go into the back country  of the Absarokas tomorrow I will always try to minimize the risk and if something has a perceptible level I will find alternatives. I am part of a loving relationship and live in a community full of interesting and diverse people that I am intenseley interested in learning about for the next thirty years. I’d be a fool to feed the ego and risk this. I’d be a fool to reinforce others whose egos drive their decision making. I encourage others to realistically evaluate the ego beast and look at how much it drives their decisions. Dead is dead.Â
Bob
KennethS
Ram
It is important to understand one other reality about the partial pressure of oxygen at 8000 m which has been associated with almost every catastrophic multi-climber event on Everest. Under the best of conditions, it is true that the partial pressure of oxygen is about a third of what it is a sea level. For many experienced climbers this is sufficient to operate for a short period of time with or without supplemental oxygen (perhaps a few days). However, storms are associated are low pressure systems. This means that the partial pressure of oxygen during these storm periods becomes too low to sustain life. The hypoxic brain swells making rational functioning impossible. Lack of oxygen causes tissue ischemia in the extremities. This means that even with the best climbing suit and gear, it is impossible to get warm. So when you read stories like Krakauers Into Thin Air about the mass deaths in 1996 on Everest, this reality is never mentioned. This is why people walk off cliffs, and wait hours for climbing partners who don’t exist, rather than simply deciding to turn around and go back down. Yes it is harsher up there than it is in Blue John.
I think it would be honorable for climbers to organize to begin to bring these dead climbers home to their families for those who desire that. I for one would contribute to such an effort.
Dr. Spinesnaper
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
Jules
Here’s a quick article on Australian climber Lincoln Hall who was believed to be dead, was abandoned and left in the Death Zone for over 24 hours and miraculously survived. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/our-everest-miracle-man-back-on-his-feet/2006/05/27/1148524930917.html
Julie
RAM
I’ll say it was! WOW! Makes me wish I had studied medicine. What an amazing documentation of symptoms and experiences. A Must read.
And perhaps when you are done, this will be a great read for those that have not done so before…or who choose to take this journey again.
http://www.jacklondons.net/buildafire.html
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Felicia wrote:
Excellent article!
Felicia
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:04 PM, Randi wrote:
> I’ll try that again ~
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all
phil
My friend Willow is Mallory’s grand daughter and had some interviews in the recent “Wildest Dream” documentary. Not only is a great addition to the mountaineering genre but explores a lot of the emotional and social concerns of the sport.
She is extremely reserved with information, amongst friends, surrounding the deaths but does a great job in the documentary stepping in for her own mother (who was young when her father died). Doesn’t sound like there was any resentment in the family after the death, but those were different times.
Would be odd seeing photographs, videos and items of dead friends or family on Everest. So many of the people just go “missing” (read “High Crimes” for the dirtier side of such deaths and incidents).
There was a time in my younger years when Everest was the penultimate outdoor goal. Glad such naive plans died in this case. The mountain is a different environment than most of us seek.
Phillip
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Yeah, that might be an easy way to go, as ” a way to go” goes. So I had been thinking for years, several years back, that the idea of “going” IS NOT OK! That going means you just blew it!! That you broke the heart of those that love you. That you left responsibilities unfinished all over the place. That young people that love you often have future commitment issues when one they love leaves, for whatever reason, during their formative years. That it is just unacceptable to die under these circumstances, doing these trivial, self indulgent exercises, even if they fill your soul.
I shared the sentiment with Judy a few years back. She said that it had always given her comfort that if I were to go, it would give her much solace to know that I was was doing what I loved. OOPS! NEVER MIND….In spite of that, I still think you have an obligation never to blow it. > ram > — In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi wrote:
 Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000. Is this because they’ve built a Monorail to the top on Sherpa’s backs? Or something akin to that?
Interesting article. Not as sad or as interesting as reading “Into Thin Air” or “Touching the Void”. Although I’m not keen on dying anytime soon, I always thought Freezing to Death would be a pretty sweet way to go. You’d have time for memories. You’d be peaceful and serene (for the most part) toward the end of the freeze. If I don’t go in my sleep – I think freezing would be the next best thing. Here’s an interesting article I read quite a few years back (Yay – I found it). It’s an extremely fascinating read on what it feels like to die this way.
tp://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all — On Sat, 1/21/12, Felicia wrote:
From: Felicia Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] OT- Everest , the Graveyard
To: “Yahoo Canyons Group” Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
ÂÂ
Ram, this was an extremely interesting article. Gruesome; yes, but well written and informative. Some of the comments are quite looney, but there are some reasonable people still out there.
Felicia
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:58 AM, “RAM” wrote:
> Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
> —
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My
> Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save
> Changes".
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email
> to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you
> must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
>
>
Felicia
Excellent article!
Felicia
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:04 PM, Randi advntr_inxs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I’ll try that again ~
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all
> — On Sat, 1/21/12, Randi advntr_inxs@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Randi advntr_inxs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] OT- Everest , the Graveyard > To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 9:02 PM
> Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000. Is this because they’ve built a Monorail to the top on Sherpa’s backs? Or something akin to that?
Interesting article. Not as sad or as interesting as reading “Into Thin Air” or “Touching the Void”. Although I’m not keen on dying anytime soon, I always thought Freezing to Death would be a pretty sweet way to go. You’d have time for memories. You’d be peaceful and serene (for the most part) toward the end of the freeze. If I don’t go in my sleep – I think freezing would be the next best thing. Here’s an interesting article I read quite a few years back (Yay – I found it). It’s an extremely fascinating read on what it feels like to die this way.
tp://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all — On Sat, 1/21/12, Felicia canyoncaper@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Felicia canyoncaper@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] OT- Everest , the Graveyard
To: “Yahoo Canyons Group” Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
Ram, this was an extremely interesting article. Gruesome; yes, but well written and informative. Some of the comments are quite looney, but there are some reasonable people still out there.
Felicia
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:58 AM, “RAM” adkramoo@aol.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
>> http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
>
>
>
>
>
>> —
>> When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
>> Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
>> To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
>
>> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My
> Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save
> Changes".
>> DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email
> to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
>> WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you
> must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
>
>
>
—
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My > Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save > Changes".
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
>
RAM
Yeah, that might be an easy way to go, as ” a way to go” goes. So I had been thinking for years, several years back, that the idea of “going” IS NOT OK! That going means you just blew it!! That you broke the heart of those that love you. That you left responsibilities unfinished all over the place. That young people that love you often have future commitment issues when one they love leaves, for whatever reason, during their formative years. That it is just unacceptable to die under these circumstances, doing these trivial, self indulgent exercises, even if they fill your soul.
I shared the sentiment with Judy a few years back. She said that it had always given her comfort that if I were to go, it would give her much solace to know that I was was doing what I loved. OOPS! NEVER MIND….In spite of that, I still think you have an obligation never to blow it. ram — In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi wrote:
 Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000. Is this because they’ve built a Monorail to the top on Sherpa’s backs? Or something akin to that? > Interesting article. Not as sad or as interesting as reading “Into Thin Air” or “Touching the Void”. Although I’m not keen on dying anytime soon, I always thought Freezing to Death would be a pretty sweet way to go. You’d have time for memories. You’d be peaceful and serene (for the most part) toward the end of the freeze. If I don’t go in my sleep – I think freezing would be the next best thing. Here’s an interesting article I read quite a few years back (Yay – I found it). It’s an extremely fascinating read on what it feels like to die this way. > tp://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
> —
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My
> Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save
> Changes".
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email
> to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you
> must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
> >
RAM
Not nearly as grim as on K2 and Annapurna. I think those are the longest odds on making it home from the summit 8000 meter peaks. Someone dig up the numbers?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, WB wrote:
Don’t know what numbers and phrasing the article is using but some prefer to use the ratio of dead to successful summiters rather than the nebulous number of “attempted”/dead. Puts it more in perspective as so many don’t make the final push to the summit. That ratio of dead/summiters is grim.
-Bill
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:02 PM, Randi wrote:
> Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000. >
WB
Don’t know what numbers and phrasing the article is using but some prefer to use the ratio of dead to successful summiters rather than the nebulous number of “attempted”/dead. Puts it more in perspective as so many don’t make the final push to the summit. That ratio of dead/summiters is grim.
-Bill
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:02 PM, Randi wrote:
> Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000.
Randi
I’ll try that again ~
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=allÂÂ
— On Sat, 1/21/12, Randi advntr_inxs@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Randi advntr_inxs@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] OT- Everest , the Graveyard To: Yahoo Canyons Group Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 9:02 PM
ÂÂ
 Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000. Is this because they’ve built a Monorail to the top on Sherpa’s backs? Or something akin to that?
Interesting article. Not as sad or as interesting as reading “Into Thin Air” or “Touching the Void”. Although I’m not keen on dying anytime soon, I always thought Freezing to Death would be a pretty sweet way to go. You’d have time for memories. You’d be peaceful and serene (for the most part) toward the end of the freeze. If I don’t go in my sleep – I think freezing would be the next best thing. Here’s an interesting article I read quite a few years back (Yay – I found it). It’s an extremely fascinating read on what it feels like to die this way.
tp://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all
— On Sat, 1/21/12, Felicia canyoncaper@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Felicia canyoncaper@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] OT- Everest , the Graveyard
To: “Yahoo Canyons Group”
Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
ÂÂ
Ram, this was an extremely interesting article. Gruesome; yes, but well written and informative. Some of the comments are quite looney, but there are some reasonable people still out there.
Felicia
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:58 AM, “RAM” adkramoo@aol.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
>
> http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
>
>
>
>
>
> —
>
> When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
>
> Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
>
> To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
>
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My
> Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save
> Changes".
>
> DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email
> to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
>
> WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you
> must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
>
>
>
Randi
 Interesting that the article claims until recently, 1 in 4 attempting Everest perished. Currently, it’s 15 -20 out of 1000. Is this because they’ve built a Monorail to the top on Sherpa’s backs? Or something akin to that? Interesting article. Not as sad or as interesting as reading “Into Thin Air” or “Touching the Void”. Although I’m not keen on dying anytime soon, I always thought Freezing to Death would be a pretty sweet way to go. You’d have time for memories. You’d be peaceful and serene (for the most part) toward the end of the freeze. If I don’t go in my sleep – I think freezing would be the next best thing. Here’s an interesting article I read quite a few years back (Yay – I found it). It’s an extremely fascinating read on what it feels like to die this way. tp://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow–First-Chill–Then-Stupor–Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all — On Sat, 1/21/12, Felicia canyoncaper@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Felicia canyoncaper@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] OT- Everest , the Graveyard To: “Yahoo Canyons Group” Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
ÂÂ
Ram, this was an extremely interesting article. Gruesome; yes, but well written and informative. Some of the comments are quite looney, but there are some reasonable people still out there.
Felicia
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:58 AM, “RAM” adkramoo@aol.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
>
> http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
>
>
>
>
>
> —
>
> When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
>
> Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
>
> To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
>
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My
> Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save
> Changes".
>
> DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email
> to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
>
> WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you
> must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
>
>
>
Felicia
Ram, this was an extremely interesting article. Gruesome; yes, but well written and informative. Some of the comments are quite looney, but there are some reasonable people still out there.
Felicia
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:58 AM, “RAM” adkramoo@aol.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT and a bit gruesome for some perhaps, but compelling too. Some of the comments on the bottom are looney. Videos wild
http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/over-200-dead-bodies-on-mount-everest/
> —
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
> This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My > Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save > Changes".
DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day’s messages.
WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
>