This I find interesting. Just a couple of days before you were in Smiling Cricket, we were having a discussion regarding different visions of the sport of canyoneering, specifically, partner work verses solo moves. The point you were making, which I have been aware of for the years I have known you, is that you favor techniques that seem to allow for the most partner interaction and teamwork. I remember many, many drops in canyons with you where I have lowered you by hand and then been spotted or thigh-belayed down. So what I want to know is, why the initial apprehension with this technique?
I have to say I find it brilliant in that it’s simple to rig, execute, involves the team, and requires minimal gear and energy expenditure, and it’s really fast.
Dean
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM”
Dave…I was not initially a fan of this technique. I have been won over. Two folks get a person up REALLY fast and without too much effort. Better than waiting in line for etrieres. It also involves more people, getting everyone “In the mode” helping wise, if you know what I mean. One needs to take care not to get rope grooves, which is easy enough to prevent by being aware of angles and in the places where the rope does come in contact, on lips, running the rope over any number of things that work, including packs.
Jacen
Doc, perhaps a meat anchor could serve as that missing link in a canyon like cricket???
J
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “orsdoc” wrote:
> A few years ago with the scouts I became impatient waiting for the scouts & some of the leaders to climb a chimney and started a variation of this lift. It is a 2:1 pulley system so the liftee cannot be clipped into a bight of rope, it must be free to run through the carabiner. Once on top the lifter secures one end of the rope to an anchor, an assistant at the bottom clips the rope into a locking carabiner on the belay loop of the person being lifted and then the lifter pulls the rope from the opposite side as the anchor. It works great and also works if there is only room for one person doing the lifting. It has the disadvantage of requiring a solid anchor so that in a canyon like cricket without a lot of anchors is problematic. Like any 2:1 twice as much rope gets pulled through as the liftee is lifted. >
orsdoc
A few years ago with the scouts I became impatient waiting for the scouts & some of the leaders to climb a chimney and started a variation of this lift. It is a 2:1 pulley system so the liftee cannot be clipped into a bight of rope, it must be free to run through the carabiner. Once on top the lifter secures one end of the rope to an anchor, an assistant at the bottom clips the rope into a locking carabiner on the belay loop of the person being lifted and then the lifter pulls the rope from the opposite side as the anchor. It works great and also works if there is only room for one person doing the lifting. It has the disadvantage of requiring a solid anchor so that in a canyon like cricket without a lot of anchors is problematic. Like any 2:1 twice as much rope gets pulled through as the liftee is lifted.
RAM
Ah yes. When I was first shown the “partner lift’ last April, out on a trip with Zion Adventure Co., it was one of those cases where I had been comfortable with a method, the etrier method, for years. Never great at going up (to put it mildly), I was resistant to the “new.” All these ropes flying around! It looked like “man hauling.” But after several turns at being hauled and doing the hauling, I was sold. I thought it would use too much energy hauling. It doesn’t. Its easy. I was initially uncomfortable giving up control on being hauled. But after a few times of literally “flying” up the wall, I knew the biggest challenge was keeping up with my feet, it was so quick. The etrier can saw a bit into the rock on rollover lips too. The “Lift” has no such issues. A devoted fan now.
Your post brings up some other thoughts. Its about style of different groups. On this last trip, which had two parts, each group had a different approach to “partner assist.” One group each individual did each problem by themselves, others watching, offering suggestion, spotting. The other group was one partner assist after another, as folks slid forward and slid back, literally over each other. I have a lot of thoughts about both of these styles. I have enjoyed both methods. I wonder what other folks think of it and what style do they use and why? Ram
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “DeanK” wrote:
This I find interesting. Just a couple of days before you were in Smiling Cricket, we were having a discussion regarding different visions of the sport of canyoneering, specifically, partner work verses solo moves. The point you were making, which I have been aware of for the years I have known you, is that you favor techniques that seem to allow for the most partner interaction and teamwork. I remember many, many drops in canyons with you where I have lowered you by hand and then been spotted or thigh-belayed down. So what I want to know is, why the initial apprehension with this technique?
I have to say I find it brilliant in that it’s simple to rig, execute, involves the team, and requires minimal gear and energy expenditure, and it’s really fast.
Dean
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “RAM” wrote:
Dave…I was not initially a fan of this technique. I have been won over. Two folks get a person up REALLY fast and without too much effort. Better than waiting in line for etrieres. It also involves more people, getting everyone “In the mode” helping wise, if you know what I mean. One needs to take care not to get rope grooves, which is easy enough to prevent by being aware of angles and in the places where the rope does come in contact, on lips, running the rope over any number of things that work, including packs. >