As much as I despise OHV abuse, I refuse to lump them together. It’s like saying we should close all canyons because some people put in some bolts. We can be accused of abusing the land…whethere we put in bolts, leave webbing, drive our gas-sucking cars hundreds of miles on paved roads, stop at Burger King for road food, or whatever.
My step-father rides an OHV most weekends in Kanab. He used to be a big-wall climber, backpacker, hiker, etc, etc, etc, but, a bad back and knee mean that this is how he sees the land he loves.
Let’s work on fixing the abusers, not antagonizing an entire group by eliminating an activity that brings pleasure to a large user group.
Jim
Jeremy Franchow jfranchow@yahoo.com> wrote: Does anybody else remember the good ol’ days? 20 years ago you could ride your ORV pretty much wherever you wanted. Total recreational users of the land was low, almost non-existent compared to today’s numbers.
But with populations set to DOUBLE in many areas of the west in the next 20 years, those recreational users will DOUBLE (or more, as cities become more crowded, an even higher percentage of people, motorized and non, will seek refuge in the outdoors.)
SUWA or no SUWA, if ORV users can’t control their own, they will eventually be banned from public lands as erosion, devegetation, and lack of wildlife will leave land managers with no choice but to do the ultimate. They are already doing it on the Wasatch Front. Closing areas completely off will just move users everywhere else, increasing stress everywhere else, until those areas are closed off, etc, etc, etc until everything is either ruined or locked up.
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/May/05122003/utah/56051.asp
Jeremy
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Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
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beadysee
Got to be frustruating. Only takes 1% bad users out of the whole to make a huge impact. Ditto jet skiers. Snowmobilers. Heli skiers. Madbolters…(ha ha).
Its becomes a much bigger problem with some of the lobby groups and advertising. Ever see an ATV commercial where the driver is put- putting down a dirt road at a sane/safe speed? Nope. Rippin’ it up. And…its just too tempting to not.
When 1% of the users are “unfixable”, then folks get thinkin’ something needs to be done besides watchin’ the damage grow and grow.
-Brian in SLC
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, charlybldr@a… wrote: > Let’s work on fixing the abusers, not antagonizing an entire group by eliminating an activity that brings pleasure to a large user group.
Jim
Here, here!
Charly
charlybldr@aol.com
Let’s work on fixing the abusers, not antagonizing an entire group by eliminating an activity that brings pleasure to a large user group.
Jim
Here, here!
Charly —–Original Message—– From: jbschnepel@yahoo.com [mailto:jbschnepel@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:17 PM To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Poor ORV users
As much as I despise OHV abuse, I refuse to lump them together. It’s like saying we should close all canyons because some people put in some bolts. We can be accused of abusing the land…whethere we put in bolts, leave webbing, drive our gas-sucking cars hundreds of miles on paved roads, stop at Burger King for road food, or whatever.
My step-father rides an OHV most weekends in Kanab. He used to be a big-wall climber, backpacker, hiker, etc, etc, etc, but, a bad back and knee mean that this is how he sees the land he loves.
Let’s work on fixing the abusers, not antagonizing an entire group by eliminating an activity that brings pleasure to a large user group.
Jim
Jeremy Franchow jfranchow@yahoo.com> wrote: Does anybody else remember the good ol’ days? 20 years ago you could ride your ORV pretty much wherever you wanted. Total recreational users of the land was low, almost non-existent compared to today’s numbers.
But with populations set to DOUBLE in many areas of the west in the next 20 years, those recreational users will DOUBLE (or more, as cities become more crowded, an even higher percentage of people, motorized and non, will seek refuge in the outdoors.)
SUWA or no SUWA, if ORV users can’t control their own, they will eventually be banned from public lands as erosion, devegetation, and lack of wildlife will leave land managers with no choice but to do the ultimate. They are already doing it on the Wasatch Front. Closing areas completely off will just move users everywhere else, increasing stress everywhere else, until those areas are closed off, etc, etc, etc until everything is either ruined or locked up.
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/May/05122003/utah/56051.asp
Jeremy
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When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
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Read only the mail you want – Mail SpamGuard.
When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List – working?
Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save Changes".
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Shane Burrows
>>Let’s work on fixing the abusers, not antagonizing an entire group by eliminating an activity that brings pleasure to a large user group.