I can’t quite scope out exactly what she was trying to do – in detail – but in general, to not rappel off the end of the rope while not tied in elsewhere. She fell over 100 feet and lived to write this report:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=501100
~Rick
bruce silliman
Point taken plus the ones about having to mind the prusssik as you descend as mentioned by her partner (Kevin -?). I’ve seen an autoblock used below the rappel device and it seemed to be very effective.
I also could feel the frustration slipping in as she was slowly moving downward and losing more rope. Unless you tie off and you are at the lower end of the rope it is sometimes very difficult to stop that slippage, especially on single strand 8mm rope. Happened to me but should I have fallen it would have been into a 4 foot pool of water. Phew!
bruce from bryce
To: canyons@yahoogroups.comFrom: beadysee@yahoo.comDate: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:07:05 +0000Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Rappelling accident report
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, bruce silliman wrote:> Question from a non-climber. In the ‘topo’ report, it was mentioned that it is standard practice to use a prussik as a backup when rapelling, yet she had failed to use one. I didn’t read it that way. Here’s what she posted: “I was not carrying some of the little prussik cords I always used to carry, no knots in the ends as I always used to have without exception….. I was ill prepared for this. But I did have some full length runners.” So, she lamented the fact that she couldn’t use her Prusik cords she normally carried, to install on the rope after she rappelled by the anchor, not as an initial backup to her rappel.I did find it interesting that she used a purcell system, too. Not that common. Bo is a fan of this, eh?Amazing story.> In my brief readings of reports about past rappelling accidents it seems that this is a practice that is no longer used. Any thoughts on why their use has decreased?I don’t know if Prusik back ups were ever that popular, but, some folks use a french Prusik or autoblock below their device. I have a couple of partners who use one religiously to this day. I, ahem, almost never do. Reason? I guess I find them a pain. I like a smooth rappel, and, being able to switch hands and complete the rappel quickly. They, of course, are used to it and have it dialed and I’ll have to admit it never seems to slow them or us down much.I almost never knot the ends, either. Most of the terrain I seem to rappel seems pretty broken up, and, if its windy at all, I want the ends of the ropes not catching in flakes, dislodging loose rocks, etc. Got a rope stuck over x-mas this way (no biggie, just had to climb up and free it). Little tape I.D. tag on the end had wadded up and became jammed in a crack. Yikes. Situation dependant, for sure. On a high angle face with loose rock, a rappel back up and knots in the ends of the rope is surely prudent…Cheers, -Brian in SLC
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beadysee
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, bruce silliman wrote: > Question from a non-climber. In the ‘topo’ report, it was mentioned that it is standard practice to use a prussik as a backup when rapelling, yet she had failed to use one.
I didn’t read it that way. Here’s what she posted: “I was not carrying some of the little prussik cords I always used to carry, no knots in the ends as I always used to have without exception….. I was ill prepared for this. But I did have some full length runners.”
So, she lamented the fact that she couldn’t use her Prusik cords she normally carried, to install on the rope after she rappelled by the anchor, not as an initial backup to her rappel.
I did find it interesting that she used a purcell system, too. Not that common. Bo is a fan of this, eh?
Amazing story.
> In my brief readings of reports about past rappelling accidents it seems that this is a practice that is no longer used. Any thoughts on why their use has decreased?
I don’t know if Prusik back ups were ever that popular, but, some folks use a french Prusik or autoblock below their device. I have a couple of partners who use one religiously to this day. I, ahem, almost never do. Reason? I guess I find them a pain. I like a smooth rappel, and, being able to switch hands and complete the rappel quickly. They, of course, are used to it and have it dialed and I’ll have to admit it never seems to slow them or us down much.
I almost never knot the ends, either. Most of the terrain I seem to rappel seems pretty broken up, and, if its windy at all, I want the ends of the ropes not catching in flakes, dislodging loose rocks, etc. Got a rope stuck over x-mas this way (no biggie, just had to climb up and free it). Little tape I.D. tag on the end had wadded up and became jammed in a crack. Yikes.
Situation dependant, for sure. On a high angle face with loose rock, a rappel back up and knots in the ends of the rope is surely prudent…
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
Kevin
When I took my first outdoor climbing course – top-rope anchors – about 12 years ago, we learned to use a prusik all the time. After my first few trips that involved rappelling, I stopped using them. I don’t see many others use them, either.
On the other hand, I’ve NEVER stopped putting knots on the rope ends. And I never will. I get grief (usually good natured) from others for it. I use a 60m rope for a 10m rappel, and I still knot the ends. Not because I’m worried about rapping off the end, in that situation, but because it’s habit, and it’s a *good* habit.
Kev
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “gajslk” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, bruce silliman wrote:
Question from a non-climber. In the ‘topo’ report, it was mentioned > that it is standard practice to use a prussik as a backup when > rappelling, yet she had failed to use one. In my brief readings of > reports about past rappelling accidents it seems that this is a > practice that is no longer used. Any thoughts on why their use has > decreased?
bruce from bryce
> Prusik backup has a couple of drawbacks. One is that when you lose > control of a rappel, the tendency is to grip the knot tighter with the > hand instead of letting go. The other drawback is that after you let > go, you’ve got to break out ascenders of some sort to unlock it and > continue on your way. If I’m worried about rockfall, I’ll use an > autoblock on my legloop.. Note that the autoblock also needs to be > released to work, so it’s only a backup for getting knocked > unconscious, not for losing control. It can be released easily after > locking.
From my experience, not only is neither technique standard, they are > very rarely used by anyone. I haven’t climbed much in the last five > years, but I’d be surprised if things have changed much.
Gordon >
gajslk
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, bruce silliman wrote:
Question from a non-climber. In the ‘topo’ report, it was mentioned that it is standard practice to use a prussik as a backup when rappelling, yet she had failed to use one. In my brief readings of reports about past rappelling accidents it seems that this is a practice that is no longer used. Any thoughts on why their use has decreased?
bruce from bryce > Prusik backup has a couple of drawbacks. One is that when you lose control of a rappel, the tendency is to grip the knot tighter with the hand instead of letting go. The other drawback is that after you let go, you’ve got to break out ascenders of some sort to unlock it and continue on your way. If I’m worried about rockfall, I’ll use an autoblock on my legloop.. Note that the autoblock also needs to be released to work, so it’s only a backup for getting knocked unconscious, not for losing control. It can be released easily after locking.
From my experience, not only is neither technique standard, they are very rarely used by anyone. I haven’t climbed much in the last five years, but I’d be surprised if things have changed much.
Gordon
bruce silliman
Question from a non-climber. In the ‘topo’ report, it was mentioned that it is standard practice to use a prussik as a backup when rapelling, yet she had failed to use one. In my brief readings of reports about past rappelling accidents it seems that this is a practice that is no longer used. Any thoughts on why their use has decreased?
bruce from bryce
To: canyons@yahoogroups.comFrom: heineman@alum.mit.eduDate: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:05:07 +0000Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Rappelling accident report
I feel compelled to add a few thoughts. The Royal Arches is a route that has touched my life deeply, primarily due to finding a freshly dead corpse at the top of pitch one on an attempt im May 1985. I heard him fall, I heard him die. Checking for a pulse while staring fearfully at a nearly severed left hand, flashing back to every horror movie ever made where the corpse grabs you, is without doubt the most unpleasant experience of my life.Half a lifetime ago when I was involved with this route, there was no rappel route. After topping out, one hiked half an hour to North Dome gully, and began the one to two hour descent. Steep, brushy, intricate route finding – all came into play. If off route, a couple rappels could be required. Nobody liked North Dome Gully. Hot, sweaty, dirty – ick. But it was reasonably safe. Far safer than ten or more rappels down a step wall.It sounds like the rappel route since installed is difficult to follow and has proved dangerous to many. Perhaps a return to walking off should occur.Rappelling is dangerous. It almost got me in 1989 in Alaska. Our rationalizations to the contrary, our efforts to minimize risk do not remove risk. They merely manage risk more effectively, and reduce the likelihood of serious injury or death. But every rappel is dangerous. The risk is ALWAYS there. May we all avoid having the numbers catch up to us. Rob— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “adkramoo” wrote:>> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rick” wrote:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=501100
> ~Rick
Thanx Rick
When I saw the name I got chills. One of our own, Megan Polk came > off the end of her rope in Yosemite in the spring of 2006.
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Rob Heineman
I feel compelled to add a few thoughts. The Royal Arches is a route that has touched my life deeply, primarily due to finding a freshly dead corpse at the top of pitch one on an attempt im May 1985. I heard him fall, I heard him die. Checking for a pulse while staring fearfully at a nearly severed left hand, flashing back to every horror movie ever made where the corpse grabs you, is without doubt the most unpleasant experience of my life.
Half a lifetime ago when I was involved with this route, there was no rappel route. After topping out, one hiked half an hour to North Dome gully, and began the one to two hour descent. Steep, brushy, intricate route finding – all came into play. If off route, a couple rappels could be required. Nobody liked North Dome Gully. Hot, sweaty, dirty – ick. But it was reasonably safe. Far safer than ten or more rappels down a step wall.
It sounds like the rappel route since installed is difficult to follow and has proved dangerous to many. Perhaps a return to walking off should occur.
Rappelling is dangerous. It almost got me in 1989 in Alaska. Our rationalizations to the contrary, our efforts to minimize risk do not remove risk. They merely manage risk more effectively, and reduce the likelihood of serious injury or death. But every rappel is dangerous. The risk is ALWAYS there. May we all avoid having the numbers catch up to us.
Rob
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “adkramoo” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rick” wrote:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=501100
> ~Rick
Thanx Rick
When I saw the name I got chills. One of our own, Megan Polk came > off the end of her rope in Yosemite in the spring of 2006.
Rick
Oops, and before I get misunderstanded, the voyage of discovery I’m referring to is “doing due diligence concerning something referred to on the internet”…
Correct, Tom, but now you’ve taken away the voyage of discovery for > many…
~Rick >
Rick
Correct, Tom, but now you’ve taken away the voyage of discovery for many…
~Rick
adkramoo
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rick” wrote: > http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=501100
~Rick
Thanx Rick
When I saw the name I got chills. One of our own, Megan Polk came off the end of her rope in Yosemite in the spring of 2006. Many of you know Megan from various canyon adventures. She is a remarkable, flexible and fit young lady and was up and operating at a high level in no time after making this report to me in August of 2006. A reminder to be careful out there. The reason for my contacting her was to tell her about a death on Mt. Formidable in the North Cascades, a climb the 2 of us had done on a 15 hour day the summer before. Her e-mail…..
Wow, I’m really sorry to hear that. I had a near death experience myself earlier this summer (june 9th) while climbing in yosemite. I was on a two pitch climb at Arch Rock. I was at the top of the second pitch rapping to the anchor of the first pitch. I didn’t have my ropes even and didn’t tie knots at the rope ends. One end of the rope was 5 feet short of the anchor and when the short end went through my rappel divice, I fell about 70 feet to the ground. YOSAR had to come rescue me and I was air-vacced to the hospital. I spent three weeks in the hospital and six weeks at my parents house in Georgia. I had 3 pelvic fractures, 12 vertibrae were fractured with a T4 burst fracture, both shoulder blades were fractured, a couple ribs were fractured and I sprained a wrist. My lungs were severly bruised and filled with fluid, my liver was lacerated, and I lost function of my left kidney because a major artery broke creating a hemotoma the size of a football. It was an extremely painful and traumatic experience to say the least. But I am having an extremly speedy recovery. I just got back to Yosemite yesterday to finish out the season here. I even did a little climbing with some friends on my way back west. I am still recovering and will take it very easy for a while. I went to the spot where I fell this morning to look at it myself. It truely is a miracle I am alive and walking. I landed in a tiny dirt spot between lots of rocks. A higher power was involved, and I have a very good crew of guardian angles. Seems I’ve heard of lots of accidents this summer; must be a bad year for them. Yall be careful out there. Love, Megan
Tom Jones
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rick” wrote:
…and here’s her partner’s report:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=494023
> Down the thread you’ll find a reference to an autolocking belay > (rappel) device which you can see here: http://tinyurl.com/2x6utw
> ~Rick >
And down the thread, you will find that it is NOT an auto-locking device, it is an auto-locking-most-of-the-time device. Notice it is not available at this time from Mountain Gear.
Tom
Rick
…and here’s her partner’s report:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=494023
Down the thread you’ll find a reference to an autolocking belay (rappel) device which you can see here: http://tinyurl.com/2x6utw
~Rick