Sad news… apparently Todd Skinner fell to his death in Yosemite a few days ago when rapping down after opening a new climbing route.
A brutal reminder that rappelling might seem easy but a lot of things can go horribly wrong – even for experts.
Yahoo Canyons Group
onkaluna
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
> Do you know of any accidents that have occurred because of these > rules ?
Yes, I know of at least two and am sure there have been others. Check out this article when you have some time:
http://tinyurl.com/yk3r2r
> I already know of one because someone didn’t follow them…
The rule that should have been followed is “retire worn-out gear before it fails and kills you”.
hank
Steven Jackson
Hey Koen this is Steven Jackson you don’t know me but I’m mainly a climber too. I started climbing almost 15 years ago and I got the same instruction from someone. A cousin who climbed much before my time even. I was instructed to always connect to both points of the harness. Standard harness of course. Although it was not long after that I went climbing with some more experienced climbers when I started to get into big wall climbing. They instructed me that when belaying or rappelling clip into the loop. More generally when attaching to a hardened piece of gear go through the loop to avoid the possible crossloading. However Ropes, Webbing anything fabric or soft and the like should still always go through both points. Something that unfortunately I have seen many canyoneers fail to do. But I’ve heard from my friend Darren at Mountainworks the B&R loop is the strongest point on the harness. The main point I think has to be that the climbing community specifically and the adventure sport community in general lost a great leader and inspiration. I know he has inspired me over the years. It is truly tragic to have lost someone so versed and experienced to catastrophic equipment failure because it was used so far past it’s life expectancy. Which is the cause of the failure not symantics over where he hooked in. Let’s all learn from him as we have during his life and if your reading this go CHECK YOUR GEAR throw it out if it’s in question. I know I have and have pressed my friends to as well. Take care everyone. Spiderman Steve
Koen pocoloco@skynet.be> wrote: > > Second, whomever “THEY” are, you ought to find other people to accept > training from. Or perhaps you think Petzl, Black Diamond and all > other harness manufacturers are conspiring together to list on their > harness instructions a way of use that is less safe, because they like > seeing climbers get killed? Pah! >
I don’t remember anymore who “they” are, they’re gone in the mist of times and beer !
“They” always gave me two rules of thumb concerning climbing harnesses when climbing (canyoning was unheard of in those days of yore ): – never clip into your belt with a carabiner, always bind in (to avoid crossloading when taking a fall) – always bind in on the two loops together, never directly in the bealy loop.
Do you know of any accidents that have occurred because of these rules ? I already know of one because someone didn’t follow them…
Now, when rappelling the most practical choice is to use a carabiner. But climbing is climbing and rappelling is something completely different. On a fall you can’t rule out crossloading but on rappel you can: rappeling is (or should be) a controlled exercise whereas you almost never can controll rope positioning during a climbers’ fall (hence the above rules of thumb). When rappelling there are other rules, to always ensure the correct placement of your descender is among the very first. And granted, the correct placement of a carabiner clipped around the two loops together is a bit more fumbly than on a “canyon” harness but perfectly feasible. One should always put his weight on his descender before “going over” or unclipping from the anchor. Basic stuff to ensure a correct positioning and prevent crossloading. More basic like that you don’t get in rapping techniques.
I’ll pass by a climbing gym to see what they teach around here nowadays and why. Maybe I’m just a dinosaur but don’t realize I’m extinct .
So, I’m curious as to why apparently manufacterers don’t want people to tie in on the two loops together ? What’s the problem ?
Koen
Koen
Second, whomever “THEY” are, you ought to find other people to accept > training from. Or perhaps you think Petzl, Black Diamond and all > other harness manufacturers are conspiring together to list on their > harness instructions a way of use that is less safe, because they like > seeing climbers get killed? Pah! >
I don’t remember anymore who “they” are, they’re gone in the mist of times and beer !
“They” always gave me two rules of thumb concerning climbing harnesses when climbing (canyoning was unheard of in those days of yore ): – never clip into your belt with a carabiner, always bind in (to avoid crossloading when taking a fall) – always bind in on the two loops together, never directly in the bealy loop.
Do you know of any accidents that have occurred because of these rules ? I already know of one because someone didn’t follow them…
Now, when rappelling the most practical choice is to use a carabiner. But climbing is climbing and rappelling is something completely different. On a fall you can’t rule out crossloading but on rappel you can: rappeling is (or should be) a controlled exercise whereas you almost never can controll rope positioning during a climbers’ fall (hence the above rules of thumb). When rappelling there are other rules, to always ensure the correct placement of your descender is among the very first. And granted, the correct placement of a carabiner clipped around the two loops together is a bit more fumbly than on a “canyon” harness but perfectly feasible. One should always put his weight on his descender before “going over” or unclipping from the anchor. Basic stuff to ensure a correct positioning and prevent crossloading. More basic like that you don’t get in rapping techniques.
I’ll pass by a climbing gym to see what they teach around here nowadays and why. Maybe I’m just a dinosaur but don’t realize I’m extinct .
So, I’m curious as to why apparently manufacterers don’t want people to tie in on the two loops together ? What’s the problem ?
Koen
Tom Jones
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
I find this difficult to comprehend… an extremely experienced > mountain man goes out and climbs (with the risk of taking a fall) > and rappels with a piece of gear of which he knows its bad > condition… so bad in fact it fails on rappel (not on a fall) and > didn’t take a single – simple – precaution to back it up ?!?
Koen
PS they always taught me to clip/knot around both straps inside the > belay loop, never directly in the belay loop of a climbing harness – > now I know why… > First off, as hard as it may be to believe, Todd was never really that sharp on ‘the gear’. He would use things way past where other people would use it. He would not think of the simple precaution of backing up his belay loop with a synchronous locking carabiner.
Second, whomever “THEY” are, you ought to find other people to accept training from. Or perhaps you think Petzl, Black Diamond and all other harness manufacturers are conspiring together to list on their harness instructions a way of use that is less safe, because they like seeing climbers get killed? Pah!
Third, when you have doubts about your equipment, you should not find ways of continuing to use it (unless you have to!), you should throw it away and go buy a new one.
Tom (el curmudgeon at least for tonight) Jones
miq_wrx
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
PS they always taught me to clip/knot around both straps inside the > belay loop, never directly in the belay loop of a climbing harness – > now I know why… >
Koen,
Yeah I thought this too but Tom and others have written about concerns of the biner getting cross loaded in this configuration. I have noticed this happen as well. The two straps like to rotate the biner into a bad situation. It is something you need to be aware of, especially if you are loading and unloading your belay device while rapping. I don’t like saying never do something but I would say you need to keep an eye out for it if you rig a biner through both straps. As always, it’s up to each person to ensure their own safety. The belay loop SHOULD be the strongest part of the harness, if it’s not worn. Weird accident.
-MIQ
Koen
> the belay loop on his harness was missing. The next day, rangers > recovered a broken harness belay loop in vegetation at the base of > the wall. It was very worn at the spot where the break had occurred. > Hewitt later told investigators that Skinner was aware that the > belay loop on his harness was in a weakened condition prior to the > climb, and that they had talked about its poor condition three days > earlier.
I find this difficult to comprehend… an extremely experienced mountain man goes out and climbs (with the risk of taking a fall) and rappels with a piece of gear of which he knows its bad condition… so bad in fact it fails on rappel (not on a fall) and didn’t take a single – simple – precaution to back it up ?!?
Koen
PS they always taught me to clip/knot around both straps inside the belay loop, never directly in the belay loop of a climbing harness – now I know why…
adkramoo
Yosemite National Park (CA) Follow-up On Fatal Climbing Fall
On the afternoon of October 23rd, dispatch received a telephone call reporting a fatal climbing fall. Jim Hewitt reported that he and his partner, well-known climber Todd Skinner, had been working on a first free ascent of the “Jesus Built My Hotrod” route on the overhanging west face of the Leaning Tower. Skinner’s fall occurred when he was rappelling. Hewitt told investigators that he had been above Skinner when he fell. As he was rappelling on the low-stretch ropes that they had fixed on the route, Hewitt came to Skinner’s Grigri descent device on the rope at the point where he’d fallen. The Grigri had a still-locked carabiner attached which had been connected to Skinner’s harness. When Skinner’s body was recovered, the belay loop on his harness was missing. The next day, rangers recovered a broken harness belay loop in vegetation at the base of the wall. It was very worn at the spot where the break had occurred. Hewitt later told investigators that Skinner was aware that the belay loop on his harness was in a weakened condition prior to the climb, and that they had talked about its poor condition three days earlier. For further details, click on “More Information” below. [Submitted by Keith Lober, Emergency Services Coordinator] More Information…
Yosemite National Park (CA) Rescue Of Seriously Injured Rock Scrambler
On Sunday, October 22nd, Valley District rangers and SAR team members responded to a report of a 35-year-old woman who had a rock weighing an estimated 1,000 pounds roll over her while she was scrambling on a talus slope. The woman, who was located about 600 feet above the valley floor in Le Conte Gully, suffered chest, spine and lower leg injuries. The medical team stabilized her and placed her in a litter; she was then hoisted out of the gully by a California Highway Patrol helicopter. The CHP helicopter landed at Ahwahnee Meadow and transferred her to a waiting Air Med helicopter to be taken to a trauma center in Modesto. The entire operation lasted just under two hours. [Submitted by Leslie Reynolds, Valley District Ranger]
Randi Poer
Sad news. There are some beautiful photos on his website:
http://www.toddskinner.com/index.htm
onkaluna
And this:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/26/CLIMBER.TMP
onkaluna
A new article…not much news, though:
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/15854486.htm
David Campen
Newspaper reports tend to be wildly inaccurate. From reading the LA Times article I would conclude that the Skinner is likely dead and that this is probably due to a fall from height in the Yosemite area while involved in some sort of climbing activity. It would seem wildly speculative to me to conclude that his harness broke just because this is what some LA Times reporter wrote. — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “M Cabourne” wrote:
According to the LA Times, Skinner’s harness broke. Sad.
His harness broke ?!? If that was indeed (and to be verified) the > case, the poor guy either had a harness which was completely, > utterly wasted or someone stored it next to a car battery or > something… > A harness must be (together with a fig 8) the most overdesigned > piece of gear we use. I remember a test where they tested a bunch > of worn gear including a completely worn harness due to some years > of intensive canyoning without baboon butt. The width of the loops > were a fraction of what they used to be, completely worn and > frayed – I’m sure 99% of this group would have ditched that > particular one a long time ago.
It broke at 3.5 tonnes… to have a well-used but structurally > intact harness break under rapelling loads is unimaginable.
Koen >
A.J.
Yes, you are correct Bruce. Even if the main harness broke, there is still a chance that one could bend his legs and hopefully still catch himself on his leg loops. My thought is that maybe he was just tied/clipped into the belay loop (since he was on rappel) – or his harness had only one tie in point (I have several like that.) If that broke, there is no backup system… I guess we’ll have to wait to see what the scoop was. Might be a wake up call to pitch the worn out gear…
Sad. Usually it’s not an equipment failure. As it was pointed out; most equipment is over-designed. Mistakes (not tying in correctly, etc.) then anchor failures seem most common…
Take care, A.J.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bruce silliman” wrote:
Yes, if true, that would be a major failure. Unthinkable.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it only one leg loop broke on a harness you > would still be held up by the other loop and the waist belt, yes?
bruce from bryce
Koen
My guess is the harness was worn out… >
To use an harness that worn out to break under rappeling loads is something I find difficult to believe.
I’ve seen a lot of harnesses where the metal tie-in buckle had worn through the webbing, but those were all canyoning harnesses – nothing a climber would put on.
We can speculate all we want as long as the investigation continues… descender hooked to gear strap… descender attached to worn runner, daisy chain or dyneema runner which cut itself… some weird rope on rope contact… fabric weakened by some chemical… a hundred things that could have happened. The outcome will probably be very simple or a bunch of little problems which amounted to a mayor failure. Like always…
Koen
beadysee
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “M Cabourne” wrote:
According to the LA Times, Skinner’s harness broke. Sad.
His harness broke ?!? If that was indeed (and to be verified) the > case, the poor guy either had a harness which was completely, utterly > wasted or someone stored it next to a car battery or something…
My guess is the harness was worn out…
Ugh…
-Brian in SLC
Investigators, friends seek answers in climber’s fatal fall By GARANCE BURKE ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
SAN FRANCISCO — A friend who’s scaled peaks with renowned rock climber Todd Skinner says he sometimes used gear beyond its life span, and fears a frayed climbing harness strap may have snapped, causing him to plunge to his death in Yosemite National Park.
It will take authorities days – possibly weeks – to officially determine why Skinner, 47, fell 500 feet to his death Monday while attempting to pioneer a new route up “Leaning Tower,” an imposing rock face near Bridalveil Fall, the famous waterfall near the entrance to Yosemite Valley.
As Skinner lowered himself down the rock wall, a nylon loop attaching his harness to the rope broke, and he fell, hitting the side of the mountain, said his close friend Paul Piana, who received an emotional call from Skinner’s climbing partner, Jim Hewitt, on Monday afternoon.
“Jim told me it was some equipment that was too worn, which makes it really tragic,” Piana said. “Todd and I have contributed to the design and tested a lot of equipment, so we have a lot of faith in its durability. Sometimes maybe because of that, you become a little too complacent.”
Iconic among outdoor adventurers as the birthplace of modern rock climbing in North America, Yosemite’s mammoth rock faces and craggy granite formations have a particular allure for climbers eager to push the boundaries of the extreme sport. In 1988, Skinner and Piana became the first to climb El Capitan, the park’s massive 3,000-foot monolith, using a technique called free climbing, in which climbers ascend using no artificial aid to climb – just a rope to protect against falls.
Rock climbers represent a very small proportion of injuries and fatalities in Yosemite, said Adrienne Freeman, a park spokeswoman. And despite public perceptions of the sport’s dangers, statistics show fatal accidents are rare.
The Golden, Colo.-based American Alpine Club estimates there are about 250,000 climbers in the U.S. and Canada. In a typical year, there are between 10 and 40 fatalities attributed to rock climbing and mountaineering, said Phil Powers, the club’s executive director. “Because of the danger and the advanced skill necessary both to move over the terrain and manage the safety systems that one needs to protect oneself, climbers are very much living in the moment,” Powers said. “In some respects, it’s sort of like the yoga of the mountaineering world.”
Skinner, of Lander, Wyo., was celebrated for blazing new paths up hundreds of sheer faces from Canada’s Yukon Territory to the Himalayas by following the natural lines of weakness – tiny cracks, wedges and edges – in the rock.
His physical control even in the most precarious of positions won Skinner the respect of his peers and helped inspire a new generation of climbers, said Daniel Duane, author of “El Capitan: Historic Feats and Radical Routes,” a history of big wall rock climbing in Yosemite.
“Each generation of climbers has kind of a shining light, and Todd has been that shining light for several generations,” said Piana. “I never thought he would go climbing, not in this way.” Freeman said it was too early in the investigation for park officials to speculate why Skinner fell.
“You’re not necessarily talking about climber error or equipment failure,” she said. “You have a whole range of things that could go wrong.”
For that reason, those new to the sport may prefer sport climbing in gyms or on artificial walls, relatively risk-free endeavors.
“Whenever you possibly can, you don’t put all your life on one piece of gear, but sometimes it’s impossible,” said Yvon Chouinard, an avid climber and owner of Patagonia Inc., an upscale outdoor gear- maker and clothier. “People have been doing the exact same thing Todd was doing for a long time, and the fact that the strap would break is pretty shocking.”
bruce silliman
Yes, if true, that would be a major failure. Unthinkable.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it only one leg loop broke on a harness you would still be held up by the other loop and the waist belt, yes?
bruce from bryce
>From: “Koen” pocoloco@skynet.be
Reply-To: Yahoo Canyons Group
To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Rappelling accident >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:44:45 -0000
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “M Cabourne” wrote:
According to the LA Times, Skinner’s harness broke. Sad.
His harness broke ?!? If that was indeed (and to be verified) the >case, the poor guy either had a harness which was completely, utterly >wasted or someone stored it next to a car battery or something…
A harness must be (together with a fig 8) the most overdesigned piece >of gear we use. I remember a test where they tested a bunch of worn >gear including a completely worn harness due to some years of >intensive canyoning without baboon butt. The width of the loops were a >fraction of what they used to be, completely worn and frayed – I’m >sure 99% of this group would have ditched that particular one a long >time ago.
It broke at 3.5 tonnes… to have a well-used but structurally intact >harness break under rapelling loads is unimaginable.
Koen
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Koen
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “M Cabourne” wrote:
According to the LA Times, Skinner’s harness broke. Sad. >
His harness broke ?!? If that was indeed (and to be verified) the case, the poor guy either had a harness which was completely, utterly wasted or someone stored it next to a car battery or something…
A harness must be (together with a fig 8) the most overdesigned piece of gear we use. I remember a test where they tested a bunch of worn gear including a completely worn harness due to some years of intensive canyoning without baboon butt. The width of the loops were a fraction of what they used to be, completely worn and frayed – I’m sure 99% of this group would have ditched that particular one a long time ago.
It broke at 3.5 tonnes… to have a well-used but structurally intact harness break under rapelling loads is unimaginable.
Koen
M Cabourne
According to the LA Times, Skinner’s harness broke. Sad.
Mike C.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Todd” wrote:
Click here: Rock Climber Falls to Death in Yosemite – AOL News > Rock Climber Falls to Death in Yosemite
YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (Oct. 25) — A renowned rock climber > was killed when he fell 500 feet after taking a new route up a rock > face, a park spokeswoman said Tuesday.
Todd Skinner, 47, was rappelling when he fell to his death Monday on > Leaning Tower, Adrienne Freeman said. It was not immediately clear > why he fell, but park officials planned to investigate.
Skinner, of Lander, Wyo., was celebrated for having climbed hundreds > of rock faces from Yukon Territory to the Himalayas using a technique > called free climbing, in which climbers use no artificial aids except > for a rope to protect against falls.
He was the first to free climb a now-famous route on El Capitan, a > granite monolith in Yosemite that rises 3,000 feet from the valley > floor, according to his Web site.
Skinner, who wrote “Beyond the Summit,” claimed to have set climbing > records in 26 countries.
“Someone might have climbed a peak or a crag or a cliff before, but > never the way Todd Skinner did,” said fellow climber Hans > Florine. “His mission was to be the first person to free climb all > the biggest faces in the world.”
Skinner and his party were climbing near Bridalveil Fall, one of the > park’s best-known waterfalls, Freeman said.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
Sad news… apparently Todd Skinner fell to his death in Yosemite a
few days ago when rapping down after opening a new climbing route.
A brutal reminder that rappelling might seem easy but a lot of > things
can go horribly wrong – even for experts.
>
Todd
Click here: Rock Climber Falls to Death in Yosemite – AOL News Rock Climber Falls to Death in Yosemite
YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (Oct. 25) — A renowned rock climber was killed when he fell 500 feet after taking a new route up a rock face, a park spokeswoman said Tuesday.
Todd Skinner, 47, was rappelling when he fell to his death Monday on Leaning Tower, Adrienne Freeman said. It was not immediately clear why he fell, but park officials planned to investigate.
Skinner, of Lander, Wyo., was celebrated for having climbed hundreds of rock faces from Yukon Territory to the Himalayas using a technique called free climbing, in which climbers use no artificial aids except for a rope to protect against falls.
He was the first to free climb a now-famous route on El Capitan, a granite monolith in Yosemite that rises 3,000 feet from the valley floor, according to his Web site.
Skinner, who wrote “Beyond the Summit,” claimed to have set climbing records in 26 countries.
“Someone might have climbed a peak or a crag or a cliff before, but never the way Todd Skinner did,” said fellow climber Hans Florine. “His mission was to be the first person to free climb all the biggest faces in the world.”
Skinner and his party were climbing near Bridalveil Fall, one of the park’s best-known waterfalls, Freeman said.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote:
Sad news… apparently Todd Skinner fell to his death in Yosemite a > few days ago when rapping down after opening a new climbing route.
A brutal reminder that rappelling might seem easy but a lot of things > can go horribly wrong – even for experts. >
beadysee
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Koen” wrote: > Sad news… apparently Todd Skinner fell to his death in Yosemite a > few days ago when rapping down after opening a new climbing route.
A brutal reminder that rappelling might seem easy but a lot of things > can go horribly wrong – even for experts.
Really nice thread on Supertopo with regard to Todd. Super nice guy. Real down to earth as well. I had a friend in the valley after Todd and Paul did their Salathe climb (right after they were almost killed by the loose block at the top). She was gettin’ bouted on a free climb and was taking a long time on the lead. Her partner had to go to the bathroom, and Todd happily took over the belay and encouraged her to finish. Always upbeat, always a positive word.
I think he’d been trying to free climb Wet Denim Daydream (so, not really opening a new route, per se). Or something to the like.
Heavy sigh…
-Brian in SLC