Am I the only one not out and about on this Labor Day weekend? Well, I did get out today, helping a friend with his group in Engelstead, and then jugging out and carrying the ropes up the hill.
Recently, folks have been reporting stuck ropes on the first rap in The Big E. I found this curious, as I have never had this problem. So, part of this trip was to investigate these reports, and see what was going on. Which leads to this anchor quiz – ie, an opportunity for us all to discuss how one figures out what anchor to use for a particular drop. Yes, it would be easier if we were all there at the head of the drop, ready to rig… so imagine we’re all there, working it out…
http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/
Please – what do you think?
What DID you think, last time you were there?
How would you rig this drop?
Tom
Felicia
Question: would your choice of tree change if you wanted to set up a retrievable anchor?
On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:02 AM, “ratagonia” ratagonia@gmail.com> wrote:
> I asked the wrong question. The real question I am trying to get at > is:
How do you choose which of several anchor options to use? What > factors do you consider? In this specific case, what did you > consider and end up with, and how did it work?
Tom
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “ratagonia” wrote: >
> Am I the only one not out and about on this Labor Day weekend? >> Well, I did get out today, helping a friend with his group in >> Engelstead, and then jugging out and carrying the ropes up the hill. >
> Recently, folks have been reporting stuck ropes on the first rap in >> The Big E. I found this curious, as I have never had this >> problem. So, part of this trip was to investigate these reports, >> and see what was going on. Which leads to this anchor quiz – ie, >> an opportunity for us all to discuss how one figures out what >> anchor to use for a particular drop. Yes, it would be easier if we >> were all there at the head of the drop, ready to rig… so imagine >> we’re all there, working it out… >
> http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/
> Please – what do you think? >
> What DID you think, last time you were there? >
> How would you rig this drop? >
> Tom >
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sirrrapsalot
I meant “A” If I said “B” — never mind — (Emily Litella – SNL)
I think you’re flipping your A’s and B’s there, Sir Raps. The “new” tree is “A”, above the corner with the rope-eating-crack. The “usual” spot has been “B”.
T
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “sirrrapsalot” wrote:
Since I was one of the canyon-people for whom Tom graciously retrieved and carried out a rope, I thought it only fitting that I toss in a thought or 2: I’ve been off Tree A a number of times as that has always been the only one I’ve seen with webbing ready to go. My particular situation may be different from folks who pull their 300: I retrieve mine later (or in the case of this Sunday, Tom pulled it) I’ve never been totally comfortable with Tree A because it’s sooo close to the edge making for a bit of an awkward start. I had one friend who bunged up his shins trying to sit start a few years ago. Anyway, I saw Tree B slinged this time and after giving it some careful consideration gave it a whirl and I gotta tell ya — I liked it a whole bunch better than Tree A. BUT- for those who use a pull cord, it looks bad. A definite corner crack that looks like a great place to even hang up an EDK. BTW- it landed me directly onto the 90′ rap station with the small foot stance. From there it was business as usual down to the pothole ledge just above the bottom. From now on for me it’s gonna be B.
Mark Mallory
>
nat_smale
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “ratagonia” wrote:
I asked the wrong question. The real question I am trying to get at is:
How do you choose which of several anchor options to use? What factors do you consider? In this specific case, what did you consider and end up with, and how did it work?
Tom
For me, by far the most important considerations in setting a rappel anchor are, in order: 1. safety of the rope (avoiding anything that might damage the rope) and 2. avoiding stuck ropes. Things like exposure or awkward starts are well down the list. Tree B fit the bill (especially with the webbing extended over the lip). Nothing to threaten the rope, and an easy pull.
Nat
ratagonia
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “taatmk” wrote:
Is Tree “E” the one at the head of the canyon that tends to eat up your rope a few feet down from the top?
I have not yet done Englestead, but plan to do it next Spring. From an earlier discussion a few months back, I am thinking Tree “E” is the one that takes you right down the flutes?
Kerry >
Tree E would put you right down the flute, but I have not seen used. Trees C and D are what I usually use for the flute-direct rappel, but they each have a bit of a rope-chewing spot. Careful out there.
Tom
taatmk
> The real question I am trying to get at is:
How do you choose which of several anchor options to use? What factors do you consider? In this specific case, what did you consider and end up with, and how did it work?
Tom
Is Tree “E” the one at the head of the canyon that tends to eat up your rope a few feet down from the top?
I have not yet done Englestead, but plan to do it next Spring. From an earlier discussion a few months back, I am thinking Tree “E” is the one that takes you right down the flutes?
Kerry
ratagonia
I think you’re flipping your A’s and B’s there, Sir Raps. The “new” tree is “A”, above the corner with the rope-eating-crack. The “usual” spot has been “B”.
T
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “sirrrapsalot” wrote:
Since I was one of the canyon-people for whom Tom graciously retrieved and carried out a rope, I thought it only fitting that I toss in a thought or 2: I’ve been off Tree A a number of times as that has always been the only one I’ve seen with webbing ready to go. My particular situation may be different from folks who pull their 300: I retrieve mine later (or in the case of this Sunday, Tom pulled it) I’ve never been totally comfortable with Tree A because it’s sooo close to the edge making for a bit of an awkward start. I had one friend who bunged up his shins trying to sit start a few years ago. Anyway, I saw Tree B slinged this time and after giving it some careful consideration gave it a whirl and I gotta tell ya — I liked it a whole bunch better than Tree A. BUT- for those who use a pull cord, it looks bad. A definite corner crack that looks like a great place to even hang up an EDK. BTW- it landed me directly onto the 90′ rap station with the small foot stance. From there it was business as usual down to the pothole ledge just above the bottom. From now on for me it’s gonna be B.
Mark Mallory >
sirrrapsalot
Since I was one of the canyon-people for whom Tom graciously retrieved and carried out a rope, I thought it only fitting that I toss in a thought or 2: I’ve been off Tree A a number of times as that has always been the only one I’ve seen with webbing ready to go. My particular situation may be different from folks who pull their 300: I retrieve mine later (or in the case of this Sunday, Tom pulled it) I’ve never been totally comfortable with Tree A because it’s sooo close to the edge making for a bit of an awkward start. I had one friend who bunged up his shins trying to sit start a few years ago. Anyway, I saw Tree B slinged this time and after giving it some careful consideration gave it a whirl and I gotta tell ya — I liked it a whole bunch better than Tree A. BUT- for those who use a pull cord, it looks bad. A definite corner crack that looks like a great place to even hang up an EDK. BTW- it landed me directly onto the 90′ rap station with the small foot stance. From there it was business as usual down to the pothole ledge just above the bottom. From now on for me it’s gonna be B.
Mark Mallory
ratagonia
I asked the wrong question. The real question I am trying to get at is:
How do you choose which of several anchor options to use? What factors do you consider? In this specific case, what did you consider and end up with, and how did it work?
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “ratagonia” wrote:
Am I the only one not out and about on this Labor Day weekend? Well, I did get out today, helping a friend with his group in Engelstead, and then jugging out and carrying the ropes up the hill.
Recently, folks have been reporting stuck ropes on the first rap in The Big E. I found this curious, as I have never had this problem. So, part of this trip was to investigate these reports, and see what was going on. Which leads to this anchor quiz – ie, an opportunity for us all to discuss how one figures out what anchor to use for a particular drop. Yes, it would be easier if we were all there at the head of the drop, ready to rig… so imagine we’re all there, working it out…
http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/
> Please – what do you think?
What DID you think, last time you were there?
How would you rig this drop?
Tom >
Steven Jackson
I’ve used tree A and tree B. Rigged high and low on both at different times. We have never had a problem with the pull.                                          Spidey
— On Sun, 9/6/09, ratagonia ratagonia@gmail.com> wrote:
From: ratagonia ratagonia@gmail.com> Subject: [from Canyons Group] Rigging Quiz To: Yahoo Canyons Group Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 6:17 PM
Â
Am I the only one not out and about on this Labor Day weekend? Well, I did get out today, helping a friend with his group in Engelstead, and then jugging out and carrying the ropes up the hill.
Recently, folks have been reporting stuck ropes on the first rap in The Big E. I found this curious, as I have never had this problem. So, part of this trip was to investigate these reports, and see what was going on. Which leads to this anchor quiz – ie, an opportunity for us all to discuss how one figures out what anchor to use for a particular drop. Yes, it would be easier if we were all there at the head of the drop, ready to rig… so imagine we’re all there, working it out…
http://canyoneering usa.com/rave/
Please – what do you think?
What DID you think, last time you were there?
How would you rig this drop?
Tom
Anton Solovyev
ratagonia wrote:
> Am I the only one not out and about on this Labor Day weekend? Well, I did get out today, helping a friend with his group in Engelstead, and then jugging out and carrying the ropes up the hill.
Recently, folks have been reporting stuck ropes on the first rap in The Big E. I found this curious, as I have never had this problem. So, part of this trip was to investigate these reports, and see what was going on. Which leads to this anchor quiz – ie, an opportunity for us all to discuss how one figures out what anchor to use for a particular drop. Yes, it would be easier if we were all there at the head of the drop, ready to rig… so imagine we’re all there, working it out…
http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/
> Please – what do you think?
What DID you think, last time you were there?
How would you rig this drop?
My longest piece of expendable webbing comes from Medieval Chamber. Along with a big collection of quick links and even a large hex piece.
The “circus tree”: remove all loops and hardware except for the most recent looking one (preferably blending with the environment). BTW, REI has nice beige (sand) colored webbing.
—
Anton Solovyev
trackrunner83
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “orsdoc” wrote: > I use tree B and set it with a wrap two pull one so that it is high > and makes it an easy start.
I’ve done the same.
> We did set it up at the head of the canyon once. It makes for a very nice rappel down the fluted wall.
Mark
I’ve wanted to do this option. Looks nice. Heard there are edges that may cause core shots. How would you rig this? I thought about using a long piece of tube webbing wrapped around the rope and sliding it down while canyoneer descends to protect the rope.
Bruce Neumann
Tree B, with 1 piece of webbing extended over the edge.
Bruce
_______________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
orsdoc
I use tree B and set it with a wrap two pull one so that it is high and makes it an easy start. (like you did at the head of the canyon) We usually do a test pull and if there are problems I would extend it over the lip for the last person down.
I really like all those slings around the tree. I usually untie them and add them to my collection of webbing.
We did set it up at the head of the canyon once. It makes for a very nice rappel down the fluted wall.
Mark
nat_smale
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “ratagonia” wrote:
Am I the only one not out and about on this Labor Day weekend? Well, I did get out today, helping a friend with his group in Engelstead, and then jugging out and carrying the ropes up the hill.
Recently, folks have been reporting stuck ropes on the first rap in The Big E. I found this curious, as I have never had this problem. So, part of this trip was to investigate these reports, and see what was going on. Which leads to this anchor quiz – ie, an opportunity for us all to discuss how one figures out what anchor to use for a particular drop. Yes, it would be easier if we were all there at the head of the drop, ready to rig… so imagine we’re all there, working it out…
http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/
> Please – what do you think?
What DID you think, last time you were there?
How would you rig this drop?
Tom >
I used tree B with the end of the webbing over the edge.
Nat