***Whats the best way to mark the center of a rope?***
I just use a “Marks-A-Lot” permenent black ink marker. Some of the rope
companies make a special pen for marking rope and then give you a big scare story about only their markers are safe for their rope fibers. The special markers are of course twice the price of the Marks-A-Lot…. you make the call….
HM1: The scare stories are not all hype. Some markers contain phenol, which is damaging to Nylon. See link below for more info about marker testing and nylon ropes. The good news is that one of the major marker manufacturers has finally agreed to produce a marker with a quality-controlled solvent that is non-damaging to nylon (not sure about polyester). I believe it is already on the market and *thought* it was a Sanford Sharpie, but not sure about it. I’ll find out next week and post back. Generally speaking, the “Marks-A-Lot” brand *can be* non-damaging (i.e. solvent is alcohol, not phenol), but the mfg. does not guarantee content. I know this b/c I researched sourcing such a marker for PMI ropes back in the late 90’s.
***Will electrical tape damage the rope with its adhesive?***
Nope, but it has a tendancy to become jammed in your belay/rappel device. I would avoid tape of any type…. YMMV….
HM1: Agree completely. Tape is to be avoided. Mark Rosen has a unique solution to the marking prob…wonder if he’ll share?
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Charly Oliver
Guilty as charged.
Although I’m sure I’ve lost a few over the years I usually “change ’em out” before I loose ’em. Easier to “re-find” the center of the rope that way.
Charly
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Hank Moon” wrote:
> litterbug!
—-
I know a lot of people don’t like using it but after trying numerous > options over the years I have settled on plain old coach’s tape. You > know, the white cloth tape you use for bandages or to tape up for > crack climbing.
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Hank Moon
litterbug!
—-
I know a lot of people don’t like using it but after trying numerous options over the years I have settled on plain old coach’s tape. You know, the white cloth tape you use for bandages or to tape up for crack climbing.
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Charly Oliver
I know a lot of people don’t like using it but after trying numerous options over the years I have settled on plain old coach’s tape. You know, the white cloth tape you use for bandages or to tape up for crack climbing.
I peel a piece off the roll about a half inch wide and two inches long. Find the center of my rope. Tie an overhand on a bight about three feet from center (either direction) and clip it to somthing I can pull on. Weight the rope (to stretch it just a little). Then tightly wrap the tape around rope center. Make sure to stretch the tape as you put it on.
The combination of stretching both the rope and the tape help the tape stick better and not get caught in rap devices etc. as easily. The stuff will still come off (I get up to half a dozen canyons pretty easily) but it’s easy to replace, even in the field.
Works pretty good.
Charly
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Hank Moon” wrote:
> The marker I spoke of below is called the Sharpie T.E.C. marker. T.E.C. > stands for “Trace Element Certified”. NASA uses this thang to mark > itty-bitty space parts or something. The point is that the ingredients > are QC’d and certified. Other markers are not. There are currently two > styles: fine and bullet point. The Bullet point is being discontinued > this year and the fine point is doubling in price. How’s that for > customer service?
According to Sanford, this marker is non-damaging to nylon and > polyester. The solvent is Xylene, which sounds like a food to avoid:
XYLENE > Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed > in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: bone marrow, > cardiovascular system, central nervous system, kidneys, liver, lungs. > Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and kidney injury. High > exposures may produce irregular heart beats. Canada classifies Xylene as > a developmental toxin as high exposures to xylenes in some animal > studies have been reported to cause health effects on the developing > fetus/embryo. These effects were often at levels toxic to the adult > animal. The significance of these effects to humans is not known. > Repeated or prolonged skin contact may cause any of the following: > irritation, dryness, cracking of the skin.
> ***>The good news is that one of the major marker manufacturers has > finally agreed to produce a marker with a quality-controlled solvent > that is non-damaging to nylon (not sure about polyester). I believe > it is already on the market and *thought* it was a Sanford Sharpie, > but not sure about it.*** > About a year ago I e-mailed the folks at Blue Water Ropes about > this. They said to use the Sharpie. Other marker manufacturers, they > said, just buy whatever solvent is cheap so their product varies > from batch to batch.
Also, there *was* a sign at REI in SLC that had been posted by Blue > Water Ropes. They suggested using a Sharpie brand marker to center > mark their ropes, but I didn’t see the sign last time I was in > there. Take that FWIW.
I would be very interested to find out what a Sharpie will do to a > poly rope. I used a black Sharpie to mark my “Canyon” rope and the > rope turned a redish-brown. Hopefully this chemistry experiment > doesn’t turn into a physics experiment. More fun with science.
-Mike
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Hank Moon
The marker I spoke of below is called the Sharpie T.E.C. marker. T.E.C. stands for “Trace Element Certified”. NASA uses this thang to mark itty-bitty space parts or something. The point is that the ingredients are QC’d and certified. Other markers are not. There are currently two styles: fine and bullet point. The Bullet point is being discontinued this year and the fine point is doubling in price. How’s that for customer service?
According to Sanford, this marker is non-damaging to nylon and polyester. The solvent is Xylene, which sounds like a food to avoid:
XYLENE Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: bone marrow, cardiovascular system, central nervous system, kidneys, liver, lungs. Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and kidney injury. High exposures may produce irregular heart beats. Canada classifies Xylene as a developmental toxin as high exposures to xylenes in some animal studies have been reported to cause health effects on the developing fetus/embryo. These effects were often at levels toxic to the adult animal. The significance of these effects to humans is not known. Repeated or prolonged skin contact may cause any of the following: irritation, dryness, cracking of the skin.
***>The good news is that one of the major marker manufacturers has finally agreed to produce a marker with a quality-controlled solvent that is non-damaging to nylon (not sure about polyester). I believe it is already on the market and *thought* it was a Sanford Sharpie, but not sure about it.*** About a year ago I e-mailed the folks at Blue Water Ropes about this. They said to use the Sharpie. Other marker manufacturers, they said, just buy whatever solvent is cheap so their product varies from batch to batch.
Also, there *was* a sign at REI in SLC that had been posted by Blue Water Ropes. They suggested using a Sharpie brand marker to center mark their ropes, but I didn’t see the sign last time I was in there. Take that FWIW.
I would be very interested to find out what a Sharpie will do to a poly rope. I used a black Sharpie to mark my “Canyon” rope and the rope turned a redish-brown. Hopefully this chemistry experiment doesn’t turn into a physics experiment. More fun with science.
-Mike
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Thank you, Petzl America
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Hank Moon
Hank will probably say that my engraving that plastic weakens the carabiner. May be true but Petzl also puts their name in the plastic (which I also paint red).
Well, I woodena sed nothing if you hadn’t prompted me!
Sure, your engraving probably weakens the plastic sleeve a little, but it really doesn’t matter. Keep in mind that the locking sleeve of a carabiner is not designed to withstand any significant force. The sleeve does not increase the strength of the carabiner. The maximum strength of a carabiner is when the carabiner is closed. The only function of the sleeve is to prevent accidental opening of the gate while the carabiner is in use. For example, the gate of a non-locking carabiner might open due to vibration or acceleration or against the user’s body and remain open afterwards due to clothing or other objects becoming trapped between the gate and the frame. A properly closed locking mechanism prevents this from happening.
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scott c.
I also mark my biners and rap devices with fingernail polish. With a wife and three daughters there is plenty around. It seems to last quite a long time if you paint over the brand name as suggested – kind of fills in the engraved logo and doesn’t rub off very fast. Choose your special color. Looks like red is taken. . .but is that vermilion red, rose red, tantalizing red, red hot mama red, passionate red …..etc.? patent leather, suede, flats, pumps, high heels, AHHHHH I can’t take it any more.
Scott Card
orsdoc rosenmark@qwest.net> wrote: I used to spend time marking rope. Now that I use the rope bag it seems like there is little point to making the rope. I don’t need the center marked to coil the rope but I admit that it is often nice to have a well marked rope so that I can accurately record the length of a drop. It seems much more important for someone like Shane or Tom who actually describe the drops than for me. “We did a number of drops and a 60 meter rope was sufficient” It seems like if I spend the time to mark a rope it is the kiss of death for that rope and the rope will soon be buggered up and I’ll have to shorten it making all those markings worthless.
I used to save unused ethibond (braided nylon) from the operating room and dull the taper needle (you don’t want to use a cutting needle) and stitch around the sheath about three times. You have to look carefully at times or you’ll miss the marking. One could also stitch a one inch black cloth around the center of the rope.
My latest for marking carabiners. A couple of years ago I had ten shiny new Petzl Attache biners. I marked them with a combination of red and yellow. Now I only have four left. Where they went I have no idea except that I did find one that had my characteristic marks that had been spray painted bluish grey by someone else. I noticed that Mtn Gear had a sale on Petzl Attache spinballs. Now I know that most people don’t like spinballs for whatever reason. I have been pretty happy with my Petzl William Ball autolock which has the same platic. Hopefully I’m the only canyoneer fool enough to use these things out there. I bought ten of them. I figure that they have that nice bright yellow plastic sleeve so at the end of the day I can collect my biners more easily. To encrease my odds of retaining them I also purchased a dremmel engraver and branded each one twice on the plastic with MR using the same vertical line for the right part of the M and the left part of the R. Then I went over it in red fingernail polish so the MR is brighter. I soon found that a red sharpie seems to work a lot faster and I can remark them after each trip if need be. If you find one of them you know who to return it to. Hank will probably say that my engraving that plastic weakens the carabiner. May be true but Petzl also puts their name in the plastic (which I also paint red)
I have a bunch of dutch ovens and after loaning them out to friends for big group use I would sometimes get them back with strange lids. I went to the Army-Navy surplus store and had a dog tag (name address, phone number) made up for each lid and oven. I haven’t lost one yet. Too bad we can’t miniturize the dog tag for carabiners.
Mark
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orsdoc
I used to spend time marking rope. Now that I use the rope bag it seems like there is little point to making the rope. I don’t need the center marked to coil the rope but I admit that it is often nice to have a well marked rope so that I can accurately record the length of a drop. It seems much more important for someone like Shane or Tom who actually describe the drops than for me. “We did a number of drops and a 60 meter rope was sufficient” It seems like if I spend the time to mark a rope it is the kiss of death for that rope and the rope will soon be buggered up and I’ll have to shorten it making all those markings worthless.
I used to save unused ethibond (braided nylon) from the operating room and dull the taper needle (you don’t want to use a cutting needle) and stitch around the sheath about three times. You have to look carefully at times or you’ll miss the marking. One could also stitch a one inch black cloth around the center of the rope.
My latest for marking carabiners. A couple of years ago I had ten shiny new Petzl Attache biners. I marked them with a combination of red and yellow. Now I only have four left. Where they went I have no idea except that I did find one that had my characteristic marks that had been spray painted bluish grey by someone else. I noticed that Mtn Gear had a sale on Petzl Attache spinballs. Now I know that most people don’t like spinballs for whatever reason. I have been pretty happy with my Petzl William Ball autolock which has the same platic. Hopefully I’m the only canyoneer fool enough to use these things out there. I bought ten of them. I figure that they have that nice bright yellow plastic sleeve so at the end of the day I can collect my biners more easily. To encrease my odds of retaining them I also purchased a dremmel engraver and branded each one twice on the plastic with MR using the same vertical line for the right part of the M and the left part of the R. Then I went over it in red fingernail polish so the MR is brighter. I soon found that a red sharpie seems to work a lot faster and I can remark them after each trip if need be. If you find one of them you know who to return it to. Hank will probably say that my engraving that plastic weakens the carabiner. May be true but Petzl also puts their name in the plastic (which I also paint red)
I have a bunch of dutch ovens and after loaning them out to friends for big group use I would sometimes get them back with strange lids. I went to the Army-Navy surplus store and had a dog tag (name address, phone number) made up for each lid and oven. I haven’t lost one yet. Too bad we can’t miniturize the dog tag for carabiners.
Mark
Koen
> back. Generally speaking, the “Marks-A-Lot” brand *can be* non-damaging > (i.e. solvent is alcohol, not phenol), but the mfg. does not guarantee > content. I know this b/c I researched sourcing such a marker for PMI > ropes back in the late 90’s.
http://tinyurl.com/dvjyd
Apart from potentially chemical damage to the ropes I think it’s a bad idea to mark the middle of the rope for canyon use. It’s a hard sport on ropes where sheat damage and core shots are frequent (much more than climbing). That means cutting the rope often and – if the middle is marked – creating false middle marks.
You can devise a kind of personal code to see if the middle point is a valid one or an old one, but canyoning is for most people a team sport so that means that a lot of people will handle other people’s ropes…
I only mark my ropes on one extremity: a thin ring for every 10 meters, a fat ring for 50 m. If it’s shortened through damage I just have to cut off an inch or two from the end and apply new markings. And I don’t have to be careful which ink or marker to use, if it breaks at those last 4 inches I should be on the ground already .
Koen