Thanks for the further information and experimentation of the sandtrap.
Though we are not inclined to hunt down new canyons and make first descents I can barely resist a new toy when one comes out. The sandtrap was irresistible and since I have yet to provide any ropes for our crew, I invested. We love our potshots and hearing that the sandtrap was an improvement (or at least expanded the possibilities) I snatched up one of the first retail versions. (Thanks Tom.) After reading about a variety of sketchy deadmen or possibly missing deadmen we decided to lug it around with us while playing with some new friends in the North Wash area. It packs very easily in a pack and I don’t mind the extra weight. Especially when the younger guns are carrying the ropes anyway.
In the end we deployed it in Adobe Swale. We had been looking for a good place to practice using it and when we got to the 3-part rappel it seems perfect, especially since the deadmen anchors in there do not create a high sense of security anyway. We deployed it at each stage separately backing it up each time and experimenting with slight variation in each sand filled depression. We spent a significant amount of time testing various amounts of sand for both the rappel and the pull. It is truly amazing how well this thing works. We did find that it is quite possible to over fill it with sand making some pulls very difficult. Finding the balance can only be achieved with testing and patience at each rappel. This takes time but less time than building some deadman anchors.
We came up with a highly technical method of measuring the sand. We poked our fingers into it to measure it’s depth. This gave us a gauge to use while refilling it after testing the pull. Worked really well until I (the lightest in the group) had them test the pull before I was the last to rappel (not backed up) on the 20 meter drop. Here I am up top refilling it with sand and deciding to error on the side of caution spread a bit more sand over the trap. It rappelled like a chokestone but we almost didn’t make the pull.
I don’t know how much sand weighs compared to water but I dare say that we had no more than 3-4, maybe 5 gallons of sand spread over the trap. With it forming perfectly to the stone lip and with careful, smooth rappeling and setting the rope friction as soon as possible even our 200 lb. friend was utterly amazed. Especially since this was his second day ever of canyoneering.
I mentioned this to someone sharing canyoneering techniques with folks in our mountain club. It will be interesting to see if they can wrap their minds around this. Honesly though, in the end we felt better about this anchor system than the unknown quantity and quality of the deadman anchor with the pile of softball sized stones stacked on top.
Which brings me to a question: Why are all these deadman anchors (and cairns as some really are) placed directly in the water flow. Would it not be more sesible to place these “off and up” to the side? Where only the larger rains would reach them? Or is it better to have the flowing rain water compact the soil around and over them? My brain says get them out of the flow of water if possible.
On another note: We explored some of the Minisot Guide canyons (the Angels & ones near Hog Springs.) Very short but with a lot of bang for the mile/hour. All very nice and scenic and when you do 3-4 in a day it still makes for some decent fun. Thanks to who ever provided this beta!
TomJones
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rick Pratt” wrote:
Which brings me to a question: Why are all these deadman anchors (and cairns as some really are) placed directly in the water flow. Would it not be more sesible to place these “off and up” to the side? Where only the larger rains would reach them? Or is it better to have the flowing rain water compact the soil around and over them? My brain says get them out of the flow of water if possible. >
Yeah, but…
a good deadman is made IN a depression, to take advantage of the geometry. These depressions are IN the watercourse. Ergo, deadmen are usually IN the watercourse.
They are not meant to be a permanent solution. They are meant to be temporary, and as such, will likely need to be replaced after every flow-event. You are entirely correct not to “trust them”. Don’t!. If you choose to use an in-place deadman, rebuild it from (below) the ground up, test and verify before the last person goes down.
Tom
RAM
Thank you, thank you! Great info and thanks for lending credibility to and spreading word on the trap. Adobe Swale is an ideal spot for it. No Kidding would be too. Heretofore an advanced anchoring canyon, now much more easily done.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Rick Pratt” wrote:
Thanks for the further information and experimentation of the sandtrap.
Though we are not inclined to hunt down new canyons and make first descents > I can barely resist a new toy when one comes out. The sandtrap was > irresistible and since I have yet to provide any ropes for our crew, I > invested. We love our potshots and hearing that the sandtrap was an > improvement (or at least expanded the possibilities) I snatched up one of > the first retail versions. (Thanks Tom.) After reading about a variety of > sketchy deadmen or possibly missing deadmen we decided to lug it around with > us while playing with some new friends in the North Wash area. It packs > very easily in a pack and I don’t mind the extra weight. Especially when > the younger guns are carrying the ropes anyway.
In the end we deployed it in Adobe Swale. We had been looking for a good > place to practice using it and when we got to the 3-part rappel it seems > perfect, especially since the deadmen anchors in there do not create a high > sense of security anyway. We deployed it at each stage separately backing > it up each time and experimenting with slight variation in each sand filled > depression. We spent a significant amount of time testing various amounts > of sand for both the rappel and the pull. It is truly amazing how well this > thing works. We did find that it is quite possible to over fill it with sand > making some pulls very difficult. Finding the balance can only be achieved > with testing and patience at each rappel. This takes time but less time > than building some deadman anchors.
We came up with a highly technical method of measuring the sand. We poked > our fingers into it to measure it’s depth. This gave us a gauge to use while > refilling it after testing the pull. Worked really well until I (the > lightest in the group) had them test the pull before I was the last to > rappel (not backed up) on the 20 meter drop. Here I am up top refilling it > with sand and deciding to error on the side of caution spread a bit more > sand over the trap. It rappelled like a chokestone but we almost didn’t > make the pull.
I don’t know how much sand weighs compared to water but I dare say that we > had no more than 3-4, maybe 5 gallons of sand spread over the trap. With it > forming perfectly to the stone lip and with careful, smooth rappeling and > setting the rope friction as soon as possible even our 200 lb. friend was > utterly amazed. Especially since this was his second day ever of > canyoneering.
I mentioned this to someone sharing canyoneering techniques with folks in > our mountain club. It will be interesting to see if they can wrap their > minds around this. Honesly though, in the end we felt better about this > anchor system than the unknown quantity and quality of the deadman anchor > with the pile of softball sized stones stacked on top.
Which brings me to a question: Why are all these deadman anchors (and > cairns as some really are) placed directly in the water flow. Would it not > be more sesible to place these “off and up” to the side? Where only the > larger rains would reach them? Or is it better to have the flowing rain > water compact the soil around and over them? My brain says get them out of > the flow of water if possible.
On another note: We explored some of the Minisot Guide canyons (the Angels > & ones near Hog Springs.) Very short but with a lot of bang for the > mile/hour. All very nice and scenic and when you do 3-4 in a day it still > makes for some decent fun. Thanks to who ever provided this beta!
>
stefan
> On another note: We explored some of the Minisot Guide canyons (the > Angels > & ones near Hog Springs.) Very short but with a lot of bang for the > mile/hour. All very nice and scenic and when you do 3-4 in a day it > still > makes for some decent fun. Thanks to who ever provided this beta!
that would be wyoming dave pimental
stefan