I sold candy as a boy scout back in the early 70’s to earn money for our troop so we could buy 300′ of bluewater 11mm. It was the first kermantle/braided sheath rope I had ever seen, or used and wow, what a technological improvement over the previous rope, goldline twisted…which fittingly described what your descent was like.
Don’t go stuff’n that static lev’n mil in your favorite ATC either, unless of course you want a hands free descent. I do prefer the smaller diameter ropes for the canyons; they’re much “purdier” too!
For nostalgic reasons I still have a piece of that original 300′ – long since retired from its indented purpose but it still gets called on occasionally to pull a lodged tree down or inebriated locals out of the ditch.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “aj.outdoors” wrote:
I chuckled at that too.
Say what you will, but that 11mm (7/16″) Bluewater line holds up insanely well. With the amount of vertical caving we did, I’m still surprised at how well it held up compared to the canyon lines we/I use today. Now, we did use edge protection – probably more diligently than canyoneering, but after around 10 years of caving including explorations, lots of pits (i.e. descending and ascending), etc; we never suffered even one core shot. The only time I’ve ever cut one of my 11mm lines is when I needed a different length.
It was definitely quite heavy to carry though; and doesn’t fit/work all that well in other descending devices. Caving racks work quite well though…
Say what you will, but that 11mm (7/16″) Bluewater line holds up insanely well. With the amount of vertical caving we did, I’m still surprised at how well it held up compared to the canyon lines we/I use today. Now, we did use edge protection – probably more diligently than canyoneering, but after around 10 years of caving including explorations, lots of pits (i.e. descending and ascending), etc; we never suffered even one core shot. The only time I’ve ever cut one of my 11mm lines is when I needed a different length.
It was definitely quite heavy to carry though; and doesn’t fit/work all that well in other descending devices. Caving racks work quite well though…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “kuenn_k2” wrote:
An amusing set of lab-tests.
His rock-saw analysis: “these swipes could be similar to the sawing action produced the stepping/standing action of a vertical caver”. I can probably come up with a few more “sharp objects” to avoid dragging across your ropes, including an open can of little friskies. However, in the past 25 years (and the caving community does a pretty good job of keeping track of this stuff) I cannot recall a single fatality as a result of cut rope. Bottom-line, pad your rope against sharp rocks – keep your bowie sheathed and your blow torch on low.
I must admit, the “absurdly” thick rope jab made me laugh… alas, it’s what we do.
^o^
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Caving.
Doing changeovers on edges. It’s what they do.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:
Under “things we learned”:
“Avoid exposing your ropes to sharp rock edges.”
Well, now we know.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up.
His rock-saw analysis: “these swipes could be similar to the sawing action produced the stepping/standing action of a vertical caver”. I can probably come up with a few more “sharp objects” to avoid dragging across your ropes, including an open can of little friskies. However, in the past 25 years (and the caving community does a pretty good job of keeping track of this stuff) I cannot recall a single fatality as a result of cut rope. Bottom-line, pad your rope against sharp rocks – keep your bowie sheathed and your blow torch on low.
I must admit, the “absurdly” thick rope jab made me laugh… alas, it’s what we do.
^o^
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Caving.
Doing changeovers on edges. It’s what they do.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:
Under “things we learned”:
“Avoid exposing your ropes to sharp rock edges.”
Well, now we know.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up. >
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up.
kuenn_k2
Ditto on the bluewater…
I sold candy as a boy scout back in the early 70’s to earn money for our troop so we could buy 300′ of bluewater 11mm. It was the first kermantle/braided sheath rope I had ever seen, or used and wow, what a technological improvement over the previous rope, goldline twisted…which fittingly described what your descent was like.
Don’t go stuff’n that static lev’n mil in your favorite ATC either, unless of course you want a hands free descent. I do prefer the smaller diameter ropes for the canyons; they’re much “purdier” too!
For nostalgic reasons I still have a piece of that original 300′ – long since retired from its indented purpose but it still gets called on occasionally to pull a lodged tree down or inebriated locals out of the ditch.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “aj.outdoors” wrote:
I chuckled at that too.
Say what you will, but that 11mm (7/16″) Bluewater line holds up insanely well. With the amount of vertical caving we did, I’m still surprised at how well it held up compared to the canyon lines we/I use today. Now, we did use edge protection – probably more diligently than canyoneering, but after around 10 years of caving including explorations, lots of pits (i.e. descending and ascending), etc; we never suffered even one core shot. The only time I’ve ever cut one of my 11mm lines is when I needed a different length.
It was definitely quite heavy to carry though; and doesn’t fit/work all that well in other descending devices. Caving racks work quite well though…
aj.outdoors
I chuckled at that too.
Say what you will, but that 11mm (7/16″) Bluewater line holds up insanely well. With the amount of vertical caving we did, I’m still surprised at how well it held up compared to the canyon lines we/I use today. Now, we did use edge protection – probably more diligently than canyoneering, but after around 10 years of caving including explorations, lots of pits (i.e. descending and ascending), etc; we never suffered even one core shot. The only time I’ve ever cut one of my 11mm lines is when I needed a different length.
It was definitely quite heavy to carry though; and doesn’t fit/work all that well in other descending devices. Caving racks work quite well though…
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “kuenn_k2” wrote:
An amusing set of lab-tests.
His rock-saw analysis: “these swipes could be similar to the sawing action produced the stepping/standing action of a vertical caver”. I can probably come up with a few more “sharp objects” to avoid dragging across your ropes, including an open can of little friskies. However, in the past 25 years (and the caving community does a pretty good job of keeping track of this stuff) I cannot recall a single fatality as a result of cut rope. Bottom-line, pad your rope against sharp rocks – keep your bowie sheathed and your blow torch on low.
I must admit, the “absurdly” thick rope jab made me laugh… alas, it’s what we do.
^o^
> — In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Caving.
Doing changeovers on edges. It’s what they do.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:
Under “things we learned”:
“Avoid exposing your ropes to sharp rock edges.”
Well, now we know.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up.
kuenn_k2
An amusing set of lab-tests.
His rock-saw analysis: “these swipes could be similar to the sawing action produced the stepping/standing action of a vertical caver”. I can probably come up with a few more “sharp objects” to avoid dragging across your ropes, including an open can of little friskies. However, in the past 25 years (and the caving community does a pretty good job of keeping track of this stuff) I cannot recall a single fatality as a result of cut rope. Bottom-line, pad your rope against sharp rocks – keep your bowie sheathed and your blow torch on low.
I must admit, the “absurdly” thick rope jab made me laugh… alas, it’s what we do.
^o^
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “TomJones” wrote:
Caving.
Doing changeovers on edges. It’s what they do.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:
Under “things we learned”:
“Avoid exposing your ropes to sharp rock edges.”
Well, now we know.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up.
>
TomJones
Caving.
Doing changeovers on edges. It’s what they do.
Tom
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:
Under “things we learned”:
“Avoid exposing your ropes to sharp rock edges.”
Well, now we know.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up. >
rickinlo
Under “things we learned”:
“Avoid exposing your ropes to sharp rock edges.”
Well, now we know.
Also I can’t imagine too many situations where your cow tail or loops for ascending get scraped on sharp rocks, at least not in the same way as your rappel rope. Still nice to know. I wonder how not absurdly thick rope holds up.