It is acknowledged that my swim style is less than stellar,so I got out in the pond today(59 degrees F)and tried every combination of swim strokes and floatation I could think of while attempting to improve my swim efficiency(effort vs. headway). I can’t say I did much more than stir up some muck,but here are some observations; A 2 Liter MSR Dromedary Bag is enough to float me(5’3″ 132#).More air doesn’t equal much more boyancy.I have tried and tried to paddle backwards as many people do and(for me)it just isn’t as quick as the bicycle style stroke for conserving energy and making headway. Keep in mind that I’m working on hands-free swimming in order to preserve hand comfort(in Winter). In an attempt to get down the backwards locomotion I found that too much float is counter-productive.If you’re floating around your collar bones,that is good.If you’re up to your neck,you’ll be colder but will probably find swimming easier.If you’re above the collar you will probably find that much of the effort of swimming is expended in bobbing up and down and not really moving backward. If you throw in the hands,then the backstroke really comes into it’s own realm.Hands alone,while going backwards,is faster than dog- paddling with both hands and feet. Of course,getting out of the water and finding the bottom are harder while going backwards,but in the long stretches of swimming and fairly comfy water it works well.If you’re trying to get through the cold water as fast as possible,dog-paddle is best… YMMV drastically… Dave
WETSUIT:My 5mm suit in nearly 60 degree water was plenty.If I was actually canyoneering,rather than goofing off,I would say that 3mm is sufficient for the water temp(sunny day in the high 70s). Dave
Randi Poer
davewyo1 davewyo1@yahoo.com> wrote: Randi!Don’t be silly!You are one FINE woman! And don’t think we didn’t catch your self-deprecating remarks about wearing a bikini.Now we’re all dying to see you in a bikini! Very tricky… ~NO ONE is dying to see a 45 yr. old woman in a bikini. And if they are, it’s only because they’ve NEVER seen a 45 yr old woman in a bikini. Trust me on this: IF they saw her in a bikini, they’d never wanna see her in a bikini twice! ; ) But thanks for the “fine woman” compliment anyway! I was talking about how it always looks funny in my pictures how everyone is swimming in different directions.
~Uh-huh! That’s not what Mike said.
Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi Poer wrote:
davewyo1 wrote: Yes,when paddling backwards you can’t see where you’re going. And you > look funny in my pictures too.
> ~ WHAT!!!!? I look “funny” in your pictures? What are you trying to say Dave? > Dammit! I’m getting pretty tired of this “looking funny” crap! I look funny in EVERY body’s pictures! I must be funny looking in real life too! I never really think of myself as like super attractive or anything like that, but I don’t like to think of myself as super hideous either…so I just try to keep a sort of balanced view of myself. Not ugly-not pretty-but so-so – OK. But then…..THEN….I see myself in a picture and it’s like “OH MY GAWD! Is that really me?” ” Is that what I actually look like?” “noooooo….” I get all emo…and have to just block it outta my mind, before I get get back to that balancing act between confidence and lack thereof! UGHHHH!
For instance: I saw this picture of Ram and Judy and I and at first I was thinking, “who is that person?” I didn’t recognize her from Mexico. All of sudden, to my absolute HORROR, I realized she was ME!
See the hideous photo under dorky pictures! I am the fat -round faced-porky pig looking gal standing next to Ram! : (
Does good karma win you “looker” points in the next life!? I HOPE so!!!!! : )
~R
When we swam something like a quarter mile on Lake Powell I > just floated backwards and used big sweeping butterfly > backstrokes.This was pretty good for endurance and efficiency,if not > speed. > Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi Poer wrote: > I do know what you mean Scott about not touching bottom “sooner” > when on your back. Sometimes I’m so intent on the swimming that my > butt will hit bottom before I’ve realized I’ve reached the shallow > shore! ; )
~R
“scott c.” wrote:
I like to swim in a straight line and get through the cold water as > fast as possible. While laying on my back I tend to not go straight > and seem to be in the water longer because I don’t touch bottom as > soon. YMMV.
Scott Card
> >
davewyo1
Randi!Don’t be silly!You are one FINE woman! And don’t think we didn’t catch your self-deprecating remarks about wearing a bikini.Now we’re all dying to see you in a bikini! Very tricky… I was talking about how it always looks funny in my pictures how everyone is swimming in different directions.I have to keep reminding myself that,if I can see the faces of swimmers,then they are swimming away from me. Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi Poer wrote:
davewyo1 wrote: Yes,when paddling backwards you can’t see where you’re going. And you > look funny in my pictures too.
> ~ WHAT!!!!? I look “funny” in your pictures? What are you trying to say Dave? > Dammit! I’m getting pretty tired of this “looking funny” crap! I look funny in EVERY body’s pictures! I must be funny looking in real life too! I never really think of myself as like super attractive or anything like that, but I don’t like to think of myself as super hideous either…so I just try to keep a sort of balanced view of myself. Not ugly-not pretty-but so-so – OK. But then…..THEN….I see myself in a picture and it’s like “OH MY GAWD! Is that really me?” ” Is that what I actually look like?” “noooooo….” I get all emo…and have to just block it outta my mind, before I get get back to that balancing act between confidence and lack thereof! UGHHHH!
For instance: I saw this picture of Ram and Judy and I and at first I was thinking, “who is that person?” I didn’t recognize her from Mexico. All of sudden, to my absolute HORROR, I realized she was ME!
See the hideous photo under dorky pictures! I am the fat -round faced-porky pig looking gal standing next to Ram! : (
Does good karma win you “looker” points in the next life!? I HOPE so!!!!! : )
~R
When we swam something like a quarter mile on Lake Powell I > just floated backwards and used big sweeping butterfly > backstrokes.This was pretty good for endurance and efficiency,if not > speed. > Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi Poer wrote: > I do know what you mean Scott about not touching bottom “sooner” > when on your back. Sometimes I’m so intent on the swimming that my > butt will hit bottom before I’ve realized I’ve reached the shallow > shore! ; )
~R
“scott c.” wrote:
I like to swim in a straight line and get through the cold water as > fast as possible. While laying on my back I tend to not go straight > and seem to be in the water longer because I don’t touch bottom as > soon. YMMV.
Scott Card
> >
Randi Poer
davewyo1 davewyo1@yahoo.com> wrote: Yes,when paddling backwards you can’t see where you’re going. And you look funny in my pictures too.
~ WHAT!!!!? I look “funny” in your pictures? What are you trying to say Dave? Dammit! I’m getting pretty tired of this “looking funny” crap! I look funny in EVERY body’s pictures! I must be funny looking in real life too! I never really think of myself as like super attractive or anything like that, but I don’t like to think of myself as super hideous either…so I just try to keep a sort of balanced view of myself. Not ugly-not pretty-but so-so – OK. But then…..THEN….I see myself in a picture and it’s like “OH MY GAWD! Is that really me?” ” Is that what I actually look like?” “noooooo….” I get all emo…and have to just block it outta my mind, before I get get back to that balancing act between confidence and lack thereof! UGHHHH!
For instance: I saw this picture of Ram and Judy and I and at first I was thinking, “who is that person?” I didn’t recognize her from Mexico. All of sudden, to my absolute HORROR, I realized she was ME!
See the hideous photo under dorky pictures! I am the fat -round faced-porky pig looking gal standing next to Ram! : (
Does good karma win you “looker” points in the next life!? I HOPE so!!!!! : )
~R
When we swam something like a quarter mile on Lake Powell I just floated backwards and used big sweeping butterfly backstrokes.This was pretty good for endurance and efficiency,if not speed. Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi Poer wrote: I do know what you mean Scott about not touching bottom “sooner” when on your back. Sometimes I’m so intent on the swimming that my butt will hit bottom before I’ve realized I’ve reached the shallow shore! ; )
~R
“scott c.” wrote: >I like to swim in a straight line and get through the cold water as fast as possible. While laying on my back I tend to not go straight and seem to be in the water longer because I don’t touch bottom as soon. YMMV.
Scott Card
davewyo1
You bet.The whole reason for trying to swim better is working towards staying warm. It’s unreal how keeping the shoulders and chest out of the water can help to keep you warm.Just a few inches can make all the difference! The hands are crucial too.It may seem like a matter of superficial comfort to baby your hands all day,but the cumulative effects of heat transfer can not be underestimated. If you can keep your hair dry,you will be able to better tolerate the prolonged exposure to very cold water. Swim class continues tomorrow…with more combinations of floatation vs.speed,load and wetsuit requirements. It’s not canyoneering,but it keeps me interested… Dave P.S.Thinking of descending Broken Falls(in the Tetons)by way of the watercourse.Can’t think of a better gulley or ditch to”canyoneer”in the Jackson Hole area.Anyone have some suggestions?Brian?Is there anything up here you would consider a canyon?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Ryan” wrote:
One of the advantages I have found with the backstroke method and a > full/floating pack is that my core tends to stay higher out of the > water so I don’t get as cold. >
Ryan
One of the advantages I have found with the backstroke method and a full/floating pack is that my core tends to stay higher out of the water so I don’t get as cold.
davewyo1
Yes,when paddling backwards you can’t see where you’re going.And you look funny in my pictures too. Getting to your feet is a bit tougher also. I tried shifting my floatation in my pack but it didn’t seem to matter if the air was high or low in the pack. When I shift to swimming backwards I have the tendency to float into a very shallow sitting position and end up thrashing the surface.If I make an effort to lock off my knees,to keep my feet lower in the water,I will swim better but will soon be floating too shallow again. The side stroke worked very well for speed but not great for endurance.When we swam something like a quarter mile on Lake Powell I just floated backwards and used big sweeping butterfly backstrokes.This was pretty good for endurance and efficiency,if not speed. Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Randi Poer wrote: I do know what you mean Scott about not touching bottom “sooner” when on your back. Sometimes I’m so intent on the swimming that my butt will hit bottom before I’ve realized I’ve reached the shallow shore! ; )
~R
“scott c.” wrote: >I like to swim in a straight line and get through the cold water as fast as possible. While laying on my back I tend to not go straight and seem to be in the water longer because I don’t touch bottom as soon. YMMV.
Scott Card
Randi Poer
I seem to move much quicker (which isn’t very fast mind you) floating on my back. I’ll often gravitate toward walls and use them to “kick off of” as well. I don’t use the back stroke, but wide under water scooping motions and small fast scissor kicking motions. I’m not a great swimmer, but this seems to work really well for me. I do know what you mean Scott about not touching bottom “sooner” when on your back. Sometimes I’m so intent on the swimming that my butt will hit bottom before I’ve realized I’ve reached the shallow shore! ; )
~R
“scott c.” cardlaw22@yahoo.com> wrote: I have found the side stroke with the scissor kick the best for me. Lead hand on pack and other hand pulling water while scissor kicking seems to be my preferred style. I too have not found the back stroke too efficient. I like to swim in a straight line and get through the cold water as fast as possible. While laying on my back I tend to not go straight and seem to be in the water longer because I don’t touch bottom as soon. YMMV.
Scott Card
davewyo1 davewyo1@yahoo.com> wrote: It is acknowledged that my swim style is less than stellar,so I got out in the pond today(59 degrees F)and tried every combination of swim strokes and floatation I could think of while attempting to improve my swim efficiency(effort vs. headway). I can’t say I did much more than stir up some muck,but here are some observations; A 2 Liter MSR Dromedary Bag is enough to float me(5’3″ 132#).More air doesn’t equal much more boyancy.I have tried and tried to paddle backwards as many people do and(for me)it just isn’t as quick as the bicycle style stroke for conserving energy and making headway. Keep in mind that I’m working on hands-free swimming in order to preserve hand comfort(in Winter). In an attempt to get down the backwards locomotion I found that too much float is counter-productive.If you’re floating around your collar bones,that is good.If you’re up to your neck,you’ll be colder but will probably find swimming easier.If you’re above the collar you will probably find that much of the effort of swimming is expended in bobbing up and down and not really moving backward. If you throw in the hands,then the backstroke really comes into it’s own realm.Hands alone,while going backwards,is faster than dog- paddling with both hands and feet. Of course,getting out of the water and finding the bottom are harder while going backwards,but in the long stretches of swimming and fairly comfy water it works well.If you’re trying to get through the cold water as fast as possible,dog-paddle is best… YMMV drastically… Dave
WETSUIT:My 5mm suit in nearly 60 degree water was plenty.If I was actually canyoneering,rather than goofing off,I would say that 3mm is sufficient for the water temp(sunny day in the high 70s). Dave
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scott c.
I have found the side stroke with the scissor kick the best for me. Lead hand on pack and other hand pulling water while scissor kicking seems to be my preferred style. I too have not found the back stroke too efficient. I like to swim in a straight line and get through the cold water as fast as possible. While laying on my back I tend to not go straight and seem to be in the water longer because I don’t touch bottom as soon. YMMV.
Scott Card
davewyo1 davewyo1@yahoo.com> wrote: It is acknowledged that my swim style is less than stellar,so I got out in the pond today(59 degrees F)and tried every combination of swim strokes and floatation I could think of while attempting to improve my swim efficiency(effort vs. headway). I can’t say I did much more than stir up some muck,but here are some observations; A 2 Liter MSR Dromedary Bag is enough to float me(5’3″ 132#).More air doesn’t equal much more boyancy.I have tried and tried to paddle backwards as many people do and(for me)it just isn’t as quick as the bicycle style stroke for conserving energy and making headway. Keep in mind that I’m working on hands-free swimming in order to preserve hand comfort(in Winter). In an attempt to get down the backwards locomotion I found that too much float is counter-productive.If you’re floating around your collar bones,that is good.If you’re up to your neck,you’ll be colder but will probably find swimming easier.If you’re above the collar you will probably find that much of the effort of swimming is expended in bobbing up and down and not really moving backward. If you throw in the hands,then the backstroke really comes into it’s own realm.Hands alone,while going backwards,is faster than dog- paddling with both hands and feet. Of course,getting out of the water and finding the bottom are harder while going backwards,but in the long stretches of swimming and fairly comfy water it works well.If you’re trying to get through the cold water as fast as possible,dog-paddle is best… YMMV drastically… Dave
WETSUIT:My 5mm suit in nearly 60 degree water was plenty.If I was actually canyoneering,rather than goofing off,I would say that 3mm is sufficient for the water temp(sunny day in the high 70s). Dave
Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.