Virgin River Gorge Canyons, bolting/ trail building

I don’t often support many routes being marked by cairns. Based on the events here, it might be one of those exceptions, especially if the source of the constructed route reads here (which is not guaranteed BTW). Directing whoever to an exit route 80% on rock seems a worthy goal. Ram

— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:

I really only mentioned that this happened in hopes that it would discourage who ever did it, from doing it again, unlikely as that is. I’m sure who ever did it thought it was a good thing to do, and that no one would mind too much. It isn’t a ‘solution,’ this is a forum to talk about canyoneering, so it didn’t seem inappropriate.

And I was just saying I thought it might be a guiding company. Not all guiding companies, or your guiding company in particular. Building a trail and putting in bolts does seem to indicate someone’s intention to do the canyon frequently. So I still don’t think that’s a terrible assumption.

And like Tom said, no picks and shovels involved. We’re just going to go do a trip down Cherry Canyon, and maybe fix some misplaced rocks on the way up. That doesn’t seem too unreasonable.

The route we found is great by the way, probably 80% on rocks, which is probably about as good as you can do given the area.

I’m going to keep giving beta on canyons I find. I think its important for people to know how beautiful an area is so that there are people to help protect it, even if it is within a mile of the interstate. >

Hey Rick

The fellow who put up the information originally, DID express regret for doing so, due to the results. I think that this is the most regrettable part of the whole affair. The idea that sharing new finds, with the community, has become something that has to be done with caution. I know many explorer types that have stopped sharing. I share less than I once did and do so with sadness. In the Ouray Hot Springs, Rick Thompson started ranting on the bolt issue. I told him at the time, that the loss was his and others, when 1st descenders style is not honored. That there were MANY places that aren’t shared with folks like him for these reasons. Very unfortunate. Call it elitism if you want. People have the instinct to share, and not for self aggrandizing, until they are burned too often.

Just yesterday someone told me of an exploration they are involved in. They found a wonderful and engaging canyon. Most of the way thru, they came to a keeper, off a rap. Not too unusual…except there was HUGE natural bridge blocking the “pot shot tossing line.” They were forced to retreat yesterday, but already have thoughts to solve the problem. Maybe locking off, low enough on the rappel, to make the toss? Exciting stuff, with still more of the canyon unknown. This fellow, like most of the explorers I know is a stickler for low impact canyoneering. Its a shame that most will not get to share the place.

Rick, no one thinks that a service such as your own was responsible for this. The idea of trail building? That is new to me. That leads me to think it is someone who plans to bring lots of people, lots of times. Also I don’t hold rickinlo too responsible for what happened. I took his actions as generous in intent and such posts have happened on the group, over the years, without a new canyon getting so severely hammered, so quickly. Dang shame. R

— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “excursionsofescalante” wrote:

Wow- That didn’t take long. Maybe even a record. I too cried Lori, the moment I saw the “hard release” of this canyon system to….the world. I notice that the blame has yet to be accepted or even acknowledged by those who invited the world to this previously pristine area. Tissue please.

Your solution, blame “the guiding companies”, then march into a WILDERNESS AREA with an army carrying picks and shovels. Bad form on both counts. The second being totally illegal.

Some food for thought, for what it’s worth:

-As a leader, you should understand ahead of time which land agency manages the area you will be entering and or publishing. NPS, NFS, BLM, and State Parks have varying rules. Good thing to know as a “project” coordinator.

-“Guiding companies” can use any type of anchor they choose. In fact, the more I think about it, I can count on one hand the times we’ve used bolts while guiding.

-I can’t recall ever seeing a canyoneer stop on the way to a canyon and begin trail excavation. Maybe I hang out with lazy canyoneers, but I just haven’t seen it. I have seen folks go to GREAT LENGTHS to avoid or minimize impact, but not the reverse.

-Find a better route in. These canyons are pretty much surrounded by rock. Impact can be easily minimized by adjusting the approach.

As Randi said, pardon the insensitivity, however prior to your release, these canyons ONLY human impact was that of the VR Anasazi and an air force plane that whacked the hill. A few lonely animal trails were the only real sign of life back there. Not any more…more tissues please.

Anyhow, I would suggest maybe you and your team get out there and fix the problem you helped create. And regarding the impacts culprit(s), I’m guessing anyone stupid enough to dig and drill their way through these wilderness canyons will cetainly be stupid enough to brag about it somewhere. It’s just a matter of time.

Anyhow,I have to go rest my arms and back, all of us guides are exhausted from digging new trails across Utah and Arizona’s pristine backcountry…oops, I let it slip out already! Sorry guides!

Actually I’m whooped from my spanking in Sandthrax. I am old, but I am weak! More later.

Putting on my thick skin (minus the knees)for all replies, show me the light and or the errors of my thinking. You won’t be the first.

Have fun, be safe. > Rick Green

— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “rickinlo” wrote:

The reason I initially thought it would be a guiding company is that the natural anchors in this canyon are very obvious and easy to set up. I’ve heard that sometimes bolting is required for insurance reasons. And, why else would someone bother to try and build a trail up something that’s easy enough to climb without one? It’s steep, but there’s great footing and not much vegetation in the way.

Also Jose just informed me that this is a wilderness area. There’s no mention of climbing or bolting, but the use of a mechanized drill is illegal, as building the trail was.

>