KISS baby. Hot water, detergent, etc. add needless complication to a simple task. Stick with cold water, mild soap (e.g. Ivory Snow), no agitator, and you’re probably OK w/any common textile PPE. Add stuff like hot water, unknown detergents, etc. and uncertainty arises. What brand detergent? Does it have bleach or softening agents? What does it do to Spectra in high concentrations with hot water, etc.? Has the forumula changed since last time I used it? (NOW! 25% more cleaning power! New fresh scent! Flavor crystals! Scrubbing bubbles! 64 oz size is 33% more than 48 oz size!). I can’t see the need for hot water outsida Tom’s greasevat scenario.
Here’s a little unexpected washup mishap:
Washing a bunch of 11 mm nylon static once after a big, dirty rescue (blood and dirt). Crammed too many ropes into a triple loader with a plastic window. With COLD water, the ropes fused and melted due to contact with the window during the spin cycle. Messy…
hank
—–Original Message—– From: Tom Jones [mailto:ratagoni@xmission.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:49 PM To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: washing ropes – detergent? hot water?
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Paul
I do not know if hot water or detergent have any additional benefits in removing the size grit that is most harmful to rope. However, it has been my impression over the years that the nylon fibers (and perhaps the other synthetics as well) used in ropes are impervious to all chemicals other than acids or bases. It has also been my impression that the temperature of hot water (typically 140 F) has no effect on nylon. I do know that hot water can effect polyester, in that the polyester fibers will go limp and straighten out when heated to hot water temperatures. (synthetic fill sleeping bags can loose some of their loft if washed in hot water). I do not think this affects the actual strength of the fibers though. >
Nylon and Polyester are pretty impervious to everything but strong acids, strong bases and Chlorine bleach, and robust to temperatures up to boiling water. But? Who can really say. One reason for the lack of testing is that the manufacturers have a lack of concern about this. Have there been incidents? This would get the manufacturers attention, but a lack of incidents tends to indicate that the problem is speculative, rather than real.
There MAY be problems with heat or strong chemicals effecting the DYNAMIC properties of lead-climbing ropes, who’s dynamic properties are somewhat more fragile than the simple property of strength. It is possible to mess up the surface properties of your rope and make it “weird”, such as sticky or squeaky, by using strong detergents and making the surface completely dry. A little fabric softener would fix that.
My recommendation: Moderation in all things especially moderation. Unless your rope was dropped in a vat of grease, there is little point in using HOT water and strong detergent. I use warm water and a half dose of soap (such as Woolite). Mostly I just hose them down, or soak in a cooler full of water to loosen up the mud. I used to wash my climbing rope in the washer, but have not needed to do that with canyon ropes.
Tom
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James Schnepel
Spoke with the VP of Technical Marketing for PMI at the Outdoor Retailer show today…she offered the following:
Most chemicals have little effect on ropes.
Excess detergent and/or fabric softener can remove make nylon ropes stiffer and less friendly, but, should not adversely affect strength. She suggested Woolite in a front-loader. Didn’t think a top loader would hurt the rope, but, that the rope might hurt the machine.
Don’t leave ropes on cement/concrete…a chemical can leach up from the concrete that can degrade the rope’s strength.
Don’t store ropes in the vicinity of car batteries and the like…the fumes are potentially harmful….she told me of a case of a fire department that kept a rope in a compartment where radio batteries were charged and the fumes ruined the rope.
Fecal matter is not good for ropes…
YMMV Jim
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adkramoo
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Bo Beck” wrote:
I was more concerned about all those keeper potholes that > the “wetsuit warmer-uppers” have created a 14.26% loss of strength > in! Think I will just worry about washing myself in the pure ammonia > after those……who cares about the rope!
Beware canyoneers, lingering in potholes with eyes lidded and jaw slightly agape. Try as you might to be casual…we know who you are and what your doing. Why so many scramble for the lead! R
Bo Beck
I was more concerned about all those keeper potholes that the “wetsuit warmer-uppers” have created a 14.26% loss of strength in! Think I will just worry about washing myself in the pure ammonia after those……who cares about the rope!
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, Tim Hoover wrote: > Interesting results. > I guess the implication is that we should store our > ropes in unleaded gas when not in use, and be sure > they don’t get wet!
Tim
> Unleaded Gasoline 1.29% gain in strength
Water
30 minute soak 2% loss of strength
3 hour soak 18% loss of strength (Hmmmmm! Wet
Canyons?)
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Tim Hoover
Interesting results. I guess the implication is that we should store our ropes in unleaded gas when not in use, and be sure they don’t get wet!
Tim
> Unleaded Gasoline 1.29% gain in strength
Water > 30 minute soak 2% loss of strength > 3 hour soak 18% loss of strength (Hmmmmm! Wet > Canyons?)
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Bo Beck
Just a tidbit that may not have much to do about washing:
At I.T.R.S. 2002 (International Technical Rescue Symposium) Golden, Co. CMC had been asked so often at training seminars, the effects of common chemicals and substances on the strength of rescue ropes, that they decided to do some tests for themselves; I will just state some of the results they came up with that I wrote down at the symposium:
Parameters: New 13 mm CMC Rescue Lifeline Nylon/nylon Kernmantle 42.21 kn mbs 5 samples of each Aprox 6″ in the center of each sample was immersed in contaminant 4-5 weeks or until contaminant evaporated Cordage institute slow pull test method
Hydraulic Rescue tool fluids: Phosphate ester (hurst fluid) .65% loss of strength Mineral Oil (Amkus Fluid) 1.19% gain in strength Diethylene Glycol (Phoenix Fluid) .02% gain in strength
#2 Diesel Fuel 2.42% loss of strength Unleaded Gasoline 1.29% gain in strength
Ammonia (Ralphs Pure Liqiud) 6.88% loss of strength Urine (Pee) 14.36% loss of strength
Results from previous 2001 testing
Bluewater rope marker 0% loss of strength Sanford Magnum Marker 0% loss of strength Duct Tape 0% loss of strength Battery Acid Immersion (nylon/nylon) 35% loss of strength Wipe (nylon/nylon) 1% loss of strength Wipe (polyester/nylon) 42% loss of strength “whats the canyon pro?”
Chlorine Bleach 100% 14% loss of strength 10% water dilution 0% loss of strength (chlorox is a 75 dilution FWIIW)
Water 30 minute soak 2% loss of strength 3 hour soak 18% loss of strength (Hmmmmm! Wet Canyons?) Asphalt roofing 4% loss of strength
Just my 2 cents worth: What is the job of a detergent? I think its a wetting agent so that the other soaps and chemicals can get to all the fibres and make them “sparkling” clean. After many rinses detergents seem to still be present, thereby inviting water to “come on in!” What was the % loss of strength of simple water? 18% I think, maybe the reason manufacturers offer Dry treatment on ropes being used in wet and freezing environments? I think if I were washing a Rope I’d use a non detergent such as Snowy Flakes or Woolite or just plain old water as to not invite more water into my rope. I always loosely coil and hang my rope in a shady area to dry (away from batteries).
Just my comments and ideas. Bo