It occurs to me that when you go with a variety of canyoneers, the thermal requirements of the individuals may vary widely and it could be tough to give good advise. Under normal Spring/Fall canyoneering conditions what thickness of suit do you require in some of the popular watery canyons? I run cold and almost always use 5mm neo booties in my shoes. Atlas “Grey” gloves or at times paddle gloves for the hands are a must for me. Chop & Neon = Full 5mm suit with probable addition of 2mm Shortie in Chop Squeeze & Quandary = Full 5/3mm 2-piece suit Black Hole = Full 5mm suit + shortie Cheesbox = 5mm Full Das Boot with Subway = 5/3 Full Heaps = Drysuit (I doubt I would survive a wetsuit in Heaps. I certainly wouldn’t enjoy it)
Dave
adkramoo
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “davewyo1” wrote: > The CONDITION of your suit can make a difference too. A new 5mm suit > doesn’t perform like a 2-year-old perforated suit. > Also the semi-dry suit with nice wrist and ankle gaskets(as Millcreek > mentioned) is noticably warmer than a standard suit. My Akona suit has > worked well and has held up as well as can be expected. > Dave
I have also found that wearing a splash jacket under the suit fills in all the spots where water can flow through too quickly. This allows water to stay put and become warm from your body heat and slows the flow and flushing. A splash jacket over the top helps too, but not as much.
Have also noted that knee pads and elbow pads also slow the flow of water, thus making the system warmer. The pads also add durability to the suit….many times over, but the slowing of the flow because of knee pads makes peeing in the suit much less desirable. ram
Chris Reeves
This time when I went through Das Boot I was actually aloud to swim through the arch. When I went through with Tom and Bruce it was kind of funny cause like Bruce said Tom told me that I recieve extra points if I swim through the arch but when I agreed and was going going to Tom wouldn’t let me cause he thought it was too cold. Do I get my points now? Oh yeah, points for what? Both were very fun trips through the Subway.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Brando” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bruce silliman” wrote: > Didn’t Tom also suggest that you receive extra points by swimming under > the arch in the right of the photo with Tom in it? Can anyone confirm > there is an arch there?
Yes there is an arch underwater in the subway… >
iamfeliciaus
We found it earlier this July. The video is hosted at:
http://www.livevideo.com/video/ZACKSREPAIR/0DC4D3E7B3B24E818FEF8B0D13 41F224/canyoneering.aspx
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “Brando” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bruce silliman” wrote: > Didn’t Tom also suggest that you receive extra points by swimming under > the arch in the right of the photo with Tom in it? Can anyone confirm > there is an arch there?
Yes there is an arch underwater in the subway… >
Brando
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “bruce silliman” wrote: Didn’t Tom also suggest that you receive extra points by swimming under the arch in the right of the photo with Tom in it? Can anyone confirm there is an arch there?
Yes there is an arch underwater in the subway…
davewyo1
The CONDITION of your suit can make a difference too. A new 5mm suit doesn’t perform like a 2-year-old perforated suit. Also the semi-dry suit with nice wrist and ankle gaskets(as Millcreek mentioned) is noticably warmer than a standard suit. My Akona suit has worked well and has held up as well as can be expected. Dave
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “gajslk” wrote:
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “millcreek3640” wrote:
So many “body” and “body temp” styles abound.
> Sometimes on the same body. > Gordon >
gajslk
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “millcreek3640” wrote:
So many “body” and “body temp” styles abound. > Sometimes on the same body. When I’m running fat, say over 180, and am acclimated to cold, I can go a couple steps or more lighter than Dave. When I’m running skinny, say less than 165 and not cold acclimated, Dave looks right on. Most of the time I go about one step cooler than Dave, but I’m always guessing at how much to wear since water temps vary and how much I’ve slept, ate, and hiked in the preceeding days all factor in. It’s better to be conservative IMO.
Gordon
bruce silliman
Tom also said something like, “Is that all you have?” Then you hit the water and …. I’ve posted a couple of photos (Subway with Chris Reeves).
Didn’t Tom also suggest that you receive extra points by swimming under the arch in the right of the photo with Tom in it? Can anyone confirm there is an arch there? I questioned Tom on that and he said there was only one way to find out. Probably do it next time I’m in the subway, given that there is not snow or ice on the ground.
bruce from bryce
>From: “Chris Reeves” creeves@rosenbergassociates.net
Reply-To: Yahoo Canyons Group
To: Yahoo Canyons Group
Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Wet Suit Requirements >Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:04:00 -0000
My first real canyoneering experience was with Tom Jones and Bruce >from Bryce in the Subway in February with 43 degree water. Totally >unfamiliar with water temps. I came unprepared with a 2/3 shorty >wetsuit and some neo socks. Tom looked at me a little shocked and >handed me a hooded sleeveless top. I was actually pretty warm. I >just went through Das Boot with my shorty and was warm as well. I >have found out that I am fairly warm blooded, except for my hands.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “davewyo1” wrote:
It occurs to me that when you go with a variety of canyoneers, the
thermal requirements of the individuals may vary widely and it >could
be tough to give good advise.
Under normal Spring/Fall canyoneering conditions what thickness of
suit do you require in some of the popular watery canyons?
I run cold and almost always use 5mm neo booties in my shoes.
Atlas “Grey” gloves or at times paddle gloves for the hands are a >must
for me.
Chop & Neon = Full 5mm suit with probable addition of 2mm Shortie >in
Chop
Squeeze & Quandary = Full 5/3mm 2-piece suit
Black Hole = Full 5mm suit + shortie
Cheesbox = 5mm Full
Das Boot with Subway = 5/3 Full
Heaps = Drysuit (I doubt I would survive a wetsuit in Heaps. I
certainly wouldn’t enjoy it)
Dave
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millcreek3640
Amen, to Dave’s comments below: So many “body” and “body temp” styles abound.
Some products I’ve used/seen others use, that I’d endorse: *Sierra Trader/Camaro Semi Dry Wetsuit 3mm; 5mm(heavy, bulky) *Tom Jones/Hyperflex Cyclone 4/3 Wetsuit; (he also sells a 3/2) *XYZ Brand 3mm chest/hood combo (I got mine through a dive shop; Tom also reportedly sells them; They are light weight!)
*Cost Camaro 150-175 or so Hyperflex 90, 125 Chest/hood 75-100 or so
* Options: a. 2mm full suit; b. 2mm shorty; c. chest/hood ; all three work in combo with the first two listed above. If chest/hood combo is put on over the wetsuit, it almost completely resists migration of water through neck and upper back zipper areas. Downside – retards hearing. Upside, now one of my favorite pieces in some watery cyns.
*Semi dry suits: I get next to no migration of water except maybe at ankles. If jumping into water over one’s head though, some water migrates through neck area/zipper. The new Hyperflex suits are reportedly very comfortable and much easier to “move” in although not semi dry; but reportedly “drier” than most other brand suits.
*Dry Suits: Kokatat Swift Entry Dry Suit, for example. In some “real cold” situations (for some folk)it’s prudent to use a dry suit. Mine, I knowingly never nicked it, but still, it always leaked from the time it was new. Bad karma/drysuit blues!
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “davewyo1” wrote:
It occurs to me that when you go with a variety of canyoneers, the > thermal requirements of the individuals may vary widely and it could > be tough to give good advise.
Bill Westerhoff
NO DOUBT!!! There are so many differences bewtween people I tend to err on the side of caution when suggesting “warm wear”. I usually don’t even consider a wet suit unless the air and water temps are sub 40, but then again I claim the Walrus defense in that I (not so intentially) carry around a good deal of insulating blubber!!! For you skinny folks, I can’t even imagine how much worse it is. Little tricks help out a lot as well. If hands get cold, swim without them in the water, keep moving, and as we all know eat lots of good carb burning happiness.
It occurs to me that when you go with a variety of canyoneers, the > thermal requirements of the individuals may vary widely and it could > be tough to give good advise. > Under normal Spring/Fall canyoneering conditions what thickness of > suit do you require in some of the popular watery canyons? > I run cold and almost always use 5mm neo booties in my shoes. > Atlas “Grey” gloves or at times paddle gloves for the hands are a must > for me. > Chop & Neon = Full 5mm suit with probable addition of 2mm Shortie in > Chop > Squeeze & Quandary = Full 5/3mm 2-piece suit > Black Hole = Full 5mm suit + shortie > Cheesbox = 5mm Full > Das Boot with Subway = 5/3 Full > Heaps = Drysuit (I doubt I would survive a wetsuit in Heaps. I > certainly wouldn’t enjoy it)
Dave >
Chris Reeves
My first real canyoneering experience was with Tom Jones and Bruce from Bryce in the Subway in February with 43 degree water. Totally unfamiliar with water temps. I came unprepared with a 2/3 shorty wetsuit and some neo socks. Tom looked at me a little shocked and handed me a hooded sleeveless top. I was actually pretty warm. I just went through Das Boot with my shorty and was warm as well. I have found out that I am fairly warm blooded, except for my hands.
— In Yahoo Canyons Group, “davewyo1” wrote:
It occurs to me that when you go with a variety of canyoneers, the > thermal requirements of the individuals may vary widely and it could > be tough to give good advise. > Under normal Spring/Fall canyoneering conditions what thickness of > suit do you require in some of the popular watery canyons? > I run cold and almost always use 5mm neo booties in my shoes. > Atlas “Grey” gloves or at times paddle gloves for the hands are a must > for me. > Chop & Neon = Full 5mm suit with probable addition of 2mm Shortie in > Chop > Squeeze & Quandary = Full 5/3mm 2-piece suit > Black Hole = Full 5mm suit + shortie > Cheesbox = 5mm Full > Das Boot with Subway = 5/3 Full > Heaps = Drysuit (I doubt I would survive a wetsuit in Heaps. I > certainly wouldn’t enjoy it)
Dave >