What would you do?……was Man survives 100-foot fall,

>Sorry ’bout that! I’ll make a mistake in this response and you can point it >out. <

Nah, I don’t need to resuce my pride. Or is that rescue?;-)

>You’ll note that I was/am responding to Ram’s scenario as another idea in >the semi-finite realm of “it depends” solutions. I was merely providing >another way of looking at the situation – not necessarily one that I >personally could not handle. I wanted people to know that they should not >blindly rappel down and offer aid if they do not have the requisite skills >to do so. In other words – and please don’t take this the wrong way – just >because Rich and Dean say *they think* it is the right thing to do, doesn’t >make it automatically right for everyone to follow suit.<

Again, noted. Granted, I muddied the waters a bit with my scenario and my experience, but I believe, and have not even remotely been convinced otherwise, that if you have the skills to get to him, the absolute best bet is to do so. Ram or someone else mentioned that it’s after noon. Most likely nobody else is coming that you might meet on the trail.

>One thing I remember from the CERT class was this – when forming the action >teams, it was noted by the firefighters that you should *not* volunteer for >one that you are not comfortable with, and they used the example of trauma: >if you are not able to handle the sight of mangled bodies and blood, then >you probably should not be part of any first aid or triage team.<

Kinda true. But if you’re “the only game in town” it may not matter. When I teach CPR I tell students that they can expect the patient to puke. Then what? My answer is “they puke, you puke, you keep doing CPR”. Not appropriate for all scenario’s, but I hope you get the point. In this scenario, you don’t have a group of volunteers or professional rescuers to pull from, it’s just you and what you decide to do.

>BUT therein lies the rub…..many people couldn’t care less about taking >first aid, basic or advanced, or resuce courses. So, no, I’ve found that >you cannot assume that other people that you recreate with will have the >same contingency training.<

You should never assume these things, which is why every person entering the outdoors should do what they reasonably can to ensure they know how to handle emergencies. Or why you should pick your partners carefully or pick the objective to more reasonably suit the participants. I don’t take newbies into anything beyond Keyhole or Pine Creek, regardless of my knowledge, skill, or ability.

>And that’s why I offered this an an alternative “it depends” solution.<

And it always does depend. Scenarios do exist where I wouldn’t go, but this isn’t one of them. And for most people, I think, they should go as well. Still convinced the best chance for survival is to go after your partner.

>It’s not even my career, but I think I’ve done what I could in becoming >prepared for some emergencies, whether they be in the outdoors or in urban >environments. And it may be sad to say, but I *know* some of my regular >partners are not as prepared as I am. Does that mean I shouldn’t do >canyons with them? It doesn’t, but it does mean that I am cognizant of the >canyons I do and with whom.<

Basically the same point I made above.

>I didn’t think of it that way, but that’s a great point. I had not used a >lot of the WFA skills in 4 years, so the information presented in our CERT >training over 3 full days was a very welcome refresher. That, and it was a >true pleasure interacting with working firefighters and EMTs. And while >CERT training is not a replacement for WFA, it did reinforce what I had >previously learned and also reiterated the concept of working with what you >have, which is always the case when in the wilderness.<

Hey, take what you can get!

>Agreed, but you have to get there first. You must have the necessary >skills to descend 300′ with no assistance and then ascend the same 300′ >with no assistance. How many weekend warriors on Yahoo can say that they >would be comfortable doing so and could do it without harming themselves? >I think I can handle the former, but on the latter, I think the rescuers >would find my lifeless body, about 2/3 of the way up, having died of >exhaustion while trying to rush up the ascent! <

Yep. Pretty much sums it up. If you’re not prepared to retrace this route, then you probably shouldn’t be there. And yes, I know, once you absolutely commit, meaning pull the 300′ rope or do the transition, you can’t get back, you’re heading down, but you should always be able to get back up the last drop you did up to the point of pulling. You should still know basic first aid.

>Only if I (“I” as in whoever is the partner) can safely do so without >harming myself.<

Of course. Best to learn before you go, no?

>But if I run into a hiker on the trail, and they can run back and alert >emergency personnel while I go back to the canyon, I might be able to >render first aid knowing that I have trained personnel coming to help.<

Again, not likely after noon.

>I’ll agree that your scenario provides the best outcome for a “C” injury, >but *only* if the partner has the requisite skills to do so, and that also >involves getting to the victim.<

Another scenario: Significant concussion, victim in and out of consciousness, can only protect their airway for so long. May be the only thing you need to do to ensure their survival, protect their airway long enough for them to do it on their own, then get help.

Scenarios are endless, still think you need to get to your partner.

Dean